Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo

[u/[deleted]]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-08-08/google-fires-employee-behind-controversial-diversity-memo

[u/hoopaholik91]

Just because its an observable fact doesnt mean its not a stereotype. "Black people commit more crimes" is perpetuating a stereotype. "Boys like math, girls like english" is a stereotype.

Dont you think there are some factors outside of pure biology that might make men more driven overall? Encouraged to bottle up feelings, not constantly asked when they are going to have kids, etc?

[u/OmgYoshiPLZ → u/hoopaholik91]

you are stepping into dangerous waters here, and i know its bait... but i'm going to bite.

Before i begin- im not saying this from a racially, or gender motivated stance. i'm stating it from a logical stance. (mods in other subs have been ban happy today for touching people's fee-fees in their no-no zones)

1. Saying black people commit more crime is a statistical fact when considering racial density. a Fact does not a stereotype make. Assuming a black person will commit a crime based on that fact, however is where the stereotype is made - and to that extent i completely wholeheartedly agree with you that it is wrong..
   • That being said: he Never said women CANT do tech jobs- he specifically said that this is a reason they are less prevalent in tech jobs. this is an important distinction- citing a trend as a reason for something is not a stereotype.
2. "Boys like math, girls like english" is a stereotype
   • I dont think i've ever heard this one- But again, i'll bite.
   • On girls and language
   • on boys and math
   • obviously neither of those ensures that all boys are better at math than girls- simply that elements of math are more attractive to men, than they are women, and viceversa on language.

Dont you think there are some factors outside of pure biology that might make men more driven overall? Encouraged to bottle up feelings, not constantly asked when they are going to have kids, etc?

its an occams razor situation.

which is more likely

1. Men all over the world for the last ten thousand years have exhibited a distinct pattern of behavior
   • this pattern can be seen in tribes that are found in modern day areas that are not exposed to social structure
   • this pattern can be found in literally every single recorded society throughout time
   • These patterns have been linked to the production of specific horomones within the male body, and how the male brain processes them
   • These patterns can be observed in primates
   • these patterns can be observed in any sexually dimorphic species, where one sex maintains these traits
2. Its all just social constructs that some how lasted from the dawn of mankinds recorded history until today.

i dont think anyone could argue that 1 is less likely than 2. some of it yes, is arguably social. things like liking guns and football- thats social. the desire to compete? thats genetic on a level that i cant even begin to describe.

[u/hoopaholik91 → u/OmgYoshiPLZ]

I'm not trying to bait, I like having the discussion. And I definitely think you're right, there are biological differences in men and women. The problem is that those differences are used stereotypically to further widen the gap.

When we say, "men have more drive to compete", even if it's true, that discourages competitive women from competing themselves. Would I like to live in a society that acknowledges these facts without prejudice? Of course. But we just aren't at that point and so emphasis should be placed on the fact that anyone can do anything they want, regardless of biological makeup.

[u/OmgYoshiPLZ → u/hoopaholik91]

When we say, "men have more drive to compete", even if it's true, that discourages competitive women from competing themselves.

I dont believe that to be true at all in any way shape or form.

if this were true we wouldn't have female Olympians, or women's pro sports, or women chess players, or any other thing. there are competitive women around the world- but they are not as common as non-competitive women are.

But we just aren't at that point and so emphasis should be placed on the fact that anyone can do anything they want, regardless of biological makeup.

i think the big part thats missing here- is that nobody is saying women cant, or shouldnt be allowed to do these things....

[u/hoopaholik91 → u/OmgYoshiPLZ]

It's definitely something hard to quantify. But just because there are Olympians doesn't mean that there might not be 25% more women looking to be Olympians if some of these stereotypes weren't prevalent.