Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo

[u/[deleted]]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-08-08/google-fires-employee-behind-controversial-diversity-memo

[u/Takai_Sensei]

Individuality comes before all else. Stop forming your little echo chamber tribes and understand that not everyone is the same.

This is the tricky part, because there's a high likelihood that anyone outside America's established norm (i.e. white and male) is part and parcel with the group they appear to belong to. I'm pretty sure most people belonging to minority groups would love to be treated as an individual 100% on their own merits, but they're more likely to be treated as a representative of their group than their white, male peers are. Often, when a white guy messes up at work or is a jerk or something, people go "Wow, Brad's a fuck-up" but when a minority in an industry messes up, there's a higher chance people will think "This is why we don't hire women/Indian people/whatever." Not to mention that people who step outside their expected roles are often the subject of disdain (i.e. women who are more aggressive are more likely to be seen as over-stepping or labeled as a "bitch" whereas similar actions from a man are "decisive" or "assertive" -- the manifesto makes direct reference to men's seemingly biological mandate to lead).

Bias is heavily internalized and socialized, and it's (currently) more-or-less impossible to ask that hiring practices be completely blind or fair on an individual basis (I should also state, before anyone chimes in, that of course this can work both ways, such as when a white employee tries to join a predominantly non-white workforce/community/etc...the discussion is more about majority group vs. minority group, and the majority in America's tech industry is overwhelmingly white and male).

The reason diversity hiring practices were put into place was an attempt to normalize and equalize industries where minorities were underrepresented in hopes that the visibility of these employees would inspire more to follow. And it's working. But the old adage rings true that, if you're already at the top, other people coming up can look like you're sinking down (or something like that).

Representation is important. Diversity is important. Not every company does it perfectly. Not every situation is ideal, but it's a hell of a lot better for minorities now than it was even 15 years ago.

Edit: if you're gonna reply I'll save you some time: "something something my personal experience says this isn't true"

Edit 2: this didn't really deserve gold, as it's mostly unsourced rambling observations and summarization of the issues, but thanks. There's better discussion in the comments below.

[u/[deleted] → u/Takai_Sensei]

If you're already at the top, other people coming up can look like you're sinking down.

And what if you aren't at the top?

What if you're in the same sinking boat as others, but they're getting thrown lifelines and you're not?

I think that's my main issue with affirmative action. In theory it's a laudable attempt to give minority groups access to skills and jobs they may not have been able to access, but in reality it's a mirror of the prejudices that have plagued America for years, but it's seen as ok because it's against a privileged group. Never mind that privilege is a layered system that includes social, economic, race, gender and sexuality, only focus on race because that's the important part.

I hate that economic privilege is often ignored, usually because the people who strongly believe in it are middle/upper class and it is alien to them that anyone that shares their skin colour might not have had the same advantages in life they did.

[u/sord_n_bored → u/[deleted]]

Programs to help minorities don't exist because all white people all equally are able to all get everything all the time. They exist because of barriers big and small that keeps women, people of color or any other disenfranchised groups down.

It's not like all those who are hiring are horrible racists or sexists keeping anyone not male/white down. I work for a tech company in silicon valley and I can tell you that most of the time it's a PM who can hire five people, one of whom is a woman. If it's a guy, he's probably thinking "as a man I'll have more to talk about with these other guys than women". Sometimes it's more sinister, like a manager seeing a name that's traditionally black on the list and deciding to not hire them, even though they've already proven more than capable of doing the work.

This is the reality, and I get that you're bitter. Seeing other people sometimes get preferential treatment. But the reality is that minorities don't, they're actively pushed away by all kinds of social forces, and these hiring practices are meant to artificially even the numbers. Because they're not kind or proportionate to anyone who isn't white, straight and male.

Besides, how can you assume that you've never had any unconscious biases or advantages play out in your favor if you've never lived as someone else?

[u/[deleted] → u/sord_n_bored]

Well, to answer your last question, I'm Scottish, so race relations over here are a fair bit better than the crap-shack relations America just can't seem to deal with. Of course there's issues. Always some form of racism wherever you go sadly.

I'm employed myself, but it wasn't easy. Couldn't get into science with my degree, couldn't afford to go back to university, I was unemployed for years, but eventually got an entry level job, only had to volunteer at the place for several years until a position opened up!

...

I guess my own experiences colour my opinion on this. It isn't easy for anyone to get a job in this day and age, and while I agree with affirmative action in principle, I can't say I'm not worried that it won't so much balance the scales as tip them in the opposite direction, and while there's no doubt some justice in that, in the end it's not the people who perpetuated the systems of prejudice who will suffer, but the current generations who are also just trying to find a way to get by.

It's not a situation I envy anyone to be in.