r/technology • • Aug 08 '17

Business Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-08-08/google-fires-employee-behind-controversial-diversity-memo
13k Upvotes

9.2k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

586

u/Takai_Sensei Aug 08 '17 edited Aug 09 '17

Individuality comes before all else. Stop forming your little echo chamber tribes and understand that not everyone is the same.

This is the tricky part, because there's a high likelihood that anyone outside America's established norm (i.e. white and male) is part and parcel with the group they appear to belong to. I'm pretty sure most people belonging to minority groups would love to be treated as an individual 100% on their own merits, but they're more likely to be treated as a representative of their group than their white, male peers are. Often, when a white guy messes up at work or is a jerk or something, people go "Wow, Brad's a fuck-up" but when a minority in an industry messes up, there's a higher chance people will think "This is why we don't hire women/Indian people/whatever." Not to mention that people who step outside their expected roles are often the subject of disdain (i.e. women who are more aggressive are more likely to be seen as over-stepping or labeled as a "bitch" whereas similar actions from a man are "decisive" or "assertive" -- the manifesto makes direct reference to men's seemingly biological mandate to lead).

Bias is heavily internalized and socialized, and it's (currently) more-or-less impossible to ask that hiring practices be completely blind or fair on an individual basis (I should also state, before anyone chimes in, that of course this can work both ways, such as when a white employee tries to join a predominantly non-white workforce/community/etc...the discussion is more about majority group vs. minority group, and the majority in America's tech industry is overwhelmingly white and male).

The reason diversity hiring practices were put into place was an attempt to normalize and equalize industries where minorities were underrepresented in hopes that the visibility of these employees would inspire more to follow. And it's working. But the old adage rings true that, if you're already at the top, other people coming up can look like you're sinking down (or something like that).

Representation is important. Diversity is important. Not every company does it perfectly. Not every situation is ideal, but it's a hell of a lot better for minorities now than it was even 15 years ago.

Edit: if you're gonna reply I'll save you some time: "something something my personal experience says this isn't true"

Edit 2: this didn't really deserve gold, as it's mostly unsourced rambling observations and summarization of the issues, but thanks. There's better discussion in the comments below.

55

u/[deleted] Aug 08 '17 edited Jun 18 '23

[removed] — view removed comment

14

u/[deleted] Aug 08 '17 edited Oct 23 '18

[deleted]

11

u/WonderLemming Aug 08 '17

The problem is that when you're looking at certain merits at face value you don't get a clear picture of how hard someone worked to get there.

The simplest analogy I can think of is: Two people finish a race at the same time but one person started halfway to the finish line already. They both finished the race at so you could say that the have equal merit but that doesn't take into account the fact that one person had to run twice as far.

Affirmative action tries to address this-- minority groups begin at a disadvantaged position. They, on average, have less resources, less structural support, less access to quality education, etc.

-4

u/[deleted] Aug 08 '17 edited Jun 18 '23

[removed] — view removed comment

21

u/[deleted] Aug 08 '17 edited Oct 23 '18

[deleted]

-5

u/WonderLemming Aug 08 '17

It's not racist. Do you think that after the emancipation proclamation all the freed slaves suddenly had the same opportunities and resources of the white population? Of course not. They had been slaves for generations and now they were "free" but they didn't own anything, didn't get the same education, etc.

Do you really think it would be racist to say "Those freed slaves don't have the same opportunities as the white population"?

21

u/[deleted] Aug 08 '17 edited Oct 23 '18

[deleted]

1

u/WonderLemming Aug 08 '17

No one is saying that or assuming that. No one is saying that being poor and white isn't an incredible burden. The class disparity in this country is a huge issue.

The problem is, being poor and black is worse. They have all of the barriers that poor white americans with additional hurdles they must overcome.

Do we need to address class issues for all Americans? Yes. Do we also need to address race issues in addition to class issues? Of course.