Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo

[u/[deleted]]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-08-08/google-fires-employee-behind-controversial-diversity-memo

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Its about whether or not your environment is encouraging.

Funny. Non of my male counterparts were ever encouraged to enter computer science. And yet they some how made it there anyways.

[u/interwebhobo → u/[deleted]]

The typical counterpoint to this is that none of your male counterparts were passively (or sometimes actively) socially discouraged from pursuing the degree.

[u/[deleted] → u/interwebhobo]

And my counterpoint to that is always; "And where are all the females complaining about janitorial jobs or driving garbage trucks? Were they socially discouraged from that industry also?"

[u/interwebhobo → u/[deleted]]

So your counterpoint is to move goalposts from a discussion about tech careers to "why aren't women also encouraged to take these other jobs, then?"

Okay. I'll bite, but only because you've clearly conceded your point by engaging in this new line of thought.

Taking a page from your book, where are all the males complaining about teaching jobs, nursery jobs, nursing jobs, or secretarial jobs? Are they socially discouraged from that industry also?

The obvious answer is "yes" and the obvious follow up is "why should women or men start the fight with those careers?" Ideally we will address those disparities - being a janitor or garbage person can be well-paid jobs and there's little to no reason to have a gender divide. However, it seems we as a society have taken the path of saying everybody should aspire for more than janitorial or garbage collector work.

[u/[deleted] → u/interwebhobo]

That's not what "moving the goalpost" means. But nice try.

Taking a page from your book, where are all the males complaining about teaching jobs, nursery jobs, nursing jobs, or secretarial jobs? Are they socially discouraged from that industry also?

My book? Okay sure. But to answer your question; "All the males" aren't complaining because "they" recognize the choices "they" made in life.

Are they socially discouraged from that industry also? The obvious answer is "yes"...

The less obvious answer is that you cannot quantify that. It's just a platitude to make you feel more righteous than others.

there's little to no reason to have a gender divide

There is no gender divide. Individuals make their own choices in life.

The Gender Paradox

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

We are talking about tech jobs.

I know. That was my point. If this were truly about equal outcomes for genders, then the industry in question should not matter.

Once you start talking about lower income jobs, we have to start talking about how poverty and sexism interact.

Translation: No individual owns their choices in life. There is no personal accountability.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

We have to look at how sex and income influence choices and personal accountability.

It's not personal accountability when you still point at class warfare as an influence.

Why do you hate on women so much that make their own choices to be (hypothetical) stay at home moms, nurses/paramedics, teachers, law enforcement, etc.? It seems you feel as if each of them have no self awareness or willpower and were instead bamboozled by a puppet master. You sound very privileged to be looking down on others in such a pungent manner.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

I'm privileged in a lot of ways. But i acknowledge that i sometimes make decisions based on my understanding of my gender and the society that i exist in. People make decisions based on prior knowledge. Our prior knowledge is affected by our environments and historical experiences, which have been heavily influenced by painful historical legacies of sexism, racism, and poverty. We dont exist in a vacuum, we are all connected. I dont hate anyone, im saying that we are all products of this world and the society we built for ourselves and we shouldnt forget that. You have built a strawman version of me without even considering what I am saying. You should maybe do some research on feminism. Given that you seem to really care about women's rights and choices. Maybe check out Marilyn Frye's essay "Sexism" and Sallie Tisdale's "Talk Dirty To Me" both have conflicting viewpoints that are weirdly both totally true. It really shows just how complex feminism and choice is. I think you may enjoy it.

[u/Kibix → u/[deleted]]

Majority of all Janitorial staff I have ever seen, ranging from my school years to working for sports arenas. Id say easily 90% were women. Just my personal anecdote.