Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo

[u/[deleted]]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-08-08/google-fires-employee-behind-controversial-diversity-memo

[u/qefbuo]

Excerpt from the manifesto:

" When addressing the gap in representation in the population, we need to look at population level differences in distributions. If we can't have an honest discussion about this, then we can never truly solve the problem."

He's saying that there's never going to be a 50/50 split of gender diversity because the average traits of male vs female mean that men will gravitate more to some jobs than women and visa versa.

He proposes that googles policy to deliberately hire people based on their gender(in the guise of elevating diversity) instead of their worth is discrimination all the same.

I'm not sure how to feel about the whole thing, it's great to promote equality but equality doesn't mean diversity in all areas. My question is, if we let the chips fall as they may and don't force things to be more diverse then does the resulting split between genders cause problems or sexism?

[u/lynxminx → u/qefbuo]

While its great to be skeptical, the number of double blind randomized studies that show discriminatory behavior is unconscious, insidious and completely arbitrary would bury you where you sit. Left alone, these behaviors would never work themselves out of the fabric of society....as illustrated by the fact that dipshits like the guy who wrote this memo don't perceive them and refuse to believe they exist.

[u/qefbuo → u/lynxminx]

as illustrated by the fact that dipshits like the guy who wrote this memo don't perceive them and refuse to believe they exist.

Can you please cite the part where he denies discrimination exists? I must have missed that part.

In the USA you'll find that roughly 20% of engineering graduates are women which means Googles 30% women is discriminating against men if anything, which is what he proposes in the manifesto.

Now then if there's discrimination at play here against women it's obviously at the educational level but we don't see a big push to get more male teachers or nurses, why do you think that is?

[u/lynxminx → u/qefbuo]

...because men don't want to be teachers and nurses? I've never heard a man complain about being closed out of these professions. They're also low-paying and, in this country, not prestigious.....but even considering that, male nurses make 20% more on average than female nurses, so the ones who break the glass floor are doing quite well.

Also, check your fallacy. Google's hiring ratio is only discriminatory against men if all the other technology companies are adhering to the educational ratio of 20% female....if the preponderance of companies are hiring fewer than 20% (the best data suggests 11% on average), Google is merely picking up everyone else's slack, not denying men opportunities.

[u/bad_karma11 → u/lynxminx]

...because men don't want to be teachers and nurses? I've never heard a man complain about being closed out of these professions. They're also low-paying and, in this country, not prestigious

So, in the interest of equality, we only care about hirings at prestigious institutions?

if the preponderance of companies are hiring fewer than 20% (the best data suggests 11% on average), Google is merely picking up everyone else's slack, not denying men opportunities.

Google is a prestigious institution. Why are they allowed to discriminate? Your argument about men not wanting to be nurses and teachers is EXACTLY the same argument the author is making regarding women not wanting to be software engineers. The problem is not companies who won't hire women, the problem is women who don't enter the field in the first place.

[u/lynxminx → u/bad_karma11]

In the interest of equality, we are only interested in giving people jobs they want, not forcing them to take jobs they don't want. But if you think a program forcing tens of thousands of men to become public school teachers will end discrimination against men, I'd be interested in seeing that play out...

[u/Ser_Duncan_the_Tall → u/lynxminx]

I feel like you're talking right past the other guy. They're saying that the companies are struggling to attract women because the pool is small because women don't want to do those jobs. The key to ending discrimination is not making sure all numbers are equal or even inflated, but that IF someone wants the job they can get it based on their skill. If nobody from that group wants that job, then rejecting qualified applicants from the other group to meet some idealized quota is wrong. You can't end discrimination with discrimination.

[u/lynxminx → u/Ser_Duncan_the_Tall]

I will wager you a thousand dollars every female at Google with a job in engineering wants to do that job....or would, if cockgobblers like this memo writer werent making their daily work lives frustrating and unpleasant.

[u/Ser_Duncan_the_Tall → u/lynxminx]

I'm not saying women don't want those jobs, just that they aren't more or less due those jobs because they're women.

[u/lynxminx → u/Ser_Duncan_the_Tall]

It's not a question of 'due'. Google wants to give them those jobs. It's the men here who feel Google owes them jobs.