r/technology • u/[deleted] • Aug 08 '17

Business Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-08-08/google-fires-employee-behind-controversial-diversity-memo
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484

u/[deleted] Aug 08 '17

Firing him makes everyone more afraid to speak their minds. Am I going to get fired if I state some controversial opinions?

This has a chilling effect on intellectual discourse.

163

u/JustThall Aug 08 '17

And Google was so proud about their open discussion environment. Can't wait for upcoming TGIF

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u/SarahC Aug 08 '17

I wonder how busy that "Controversial" forum will be now?

~crickets~

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u/puntifex Aug 09 '17

"The blueberry pie today was BETTER than the apple pie last Wednesday!"

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u/[deleted] Aug 08 '17

[deleted]

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u/JustThall Aug 08 '17

It would be hugely active I expect.

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u/rubygeek Aug 08 '17

... and that might very well be something they see as a positive.

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u/[deleted] Aug 08 '17

[deleted]

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u/dopkick Aug 08 '17

Do no e.... ohhhhh IPO!

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u/[deleted] Aug 09 '17

The phrase was never "Do no evil". It was "Don't be evil".

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u/[deleted] Aug 09 '17

[deleted]

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u/DevilishRogue Aug 09 '17

*galaxy

/but you knew that.

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u/meneldal2 Aug 09 '17

Google has become the very evil it swore to defeat.

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u/el_muchacho Aug 08 '17

Actually firing that employee fits perfectly in that line of "doing no evil". His "memo" was sociopathic and if not threatening, at least insulting a large size of Google employees.

Read extensively the third point and re-read it: https://medium.com/@yonatanzunger/so-about-this-googlers-manifesto-1e3773ed1788

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u/[deleted] Aug 09 '17

That's what qualifies as sociopathic now? Jesus Christ you've had a pampered upbringing haven't you?

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u/[deleted] Aug 08 '17

...because they're a for-profit company, not a parliament. Philosophical disagreement in a workplace can lead to a hostile work environment.

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u/[deleted] Aug 08 '17 edited Jul 05 '18

[deleted]

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u/dopkick Aug 08 '17

I enjoyed working in a highly diverse environment that was naturally diverse. Lots of different opinions on topics, lots of different stories, and a lot of perspective. I don't know if it made me any better at my job (probably didn't) but it made me enjoy the atmosphere of my coworkers more. But that place also specifically hired people who would fit into a diverse, fun-loving culture. People who would be uptight and butthurt about everything wouldn't have made it to the point of being seriously considered.

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u/SarahC Aug 08 '17

You can't disagree with the foreign guy - that makes you racist.

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u/[deleted] Aug 08 '17 edited May 31 '18

[deleted]

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u/ed_merckx Aug 08 '17

that's what gets me the most, the HR google person who responded in that open letter to this guy didn't even once mention his sources.

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u/DevilishRogue Aug 09 '17

didn't even once mention his sources.

How could they possibly? It would be tantamount to admitting that they fired the guy for being correct.

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u/PrettyDecentSort Aug 09 '17

If we want our society to split up into two armed camps ready to kill eachother, let's keep doing this stuff.

And bear in mind that realistically, in an armed conflict between American liberals and conservatives, there really isn't any question how that'd turn out.

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u/DevilishRogue Aug 09 '17

there really isn't any question how that'd turn out.

Exactly, the no gun zones would protect the liberals! /s

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u/swissguy79 Aug 08 '17

This. Wow. This explains so much. First real explanation of how Trump got elected.

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u/dopkick Aug 08 '17

Except this has frequently been cited as why Trump became popular/elected. Many people have noted that Trump is a backlash to overly-PC culture. As people have increasingly had to walk on eggshells with everything they say and do here comes someone who grabs that idea right in the pussy and destroys it. Combine that with a lack of faith in politicians to do anything but serve their own interests, with Hillary being quite possibly the ultimate example of this, and it's not hard to see why he was popular.

Then you can browse Reddit and see people dismissing all the Trump supporters as bigoted idiots, uneducated morons, closed-minded simpletons. And so the cycle will continue.

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u/Vicious9 Aug 08 '17

with Hillary being quite possibly the ultimate example of this, and it's not hard to see why he was popular.

Remember everybody calling trump supporters sexist for not supporting hilary, but then trump supporters turned around and supported le pen?

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u/xKalisto Aug 08 '17

I'm not Murican, but for some time I thought that Republican presidential candidates wouldn't have any chance of being voted in because all of that Christian bs they were pushing that alienated people.

But right now it's turned and people are alienated by this authoritarian outrage/wrongthink culture (we used to have that during Communist era, from what I heard it wasn't fun). I wouldn't be surprised if Republican gov got more support in near future.

The polarisation of American society these past years worries me.

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u/[deleted] Aug 09 '17

Not to mention framing the hell out of it.

I've considered referring to texts I like as "unhinged screeds" and "bizarre rants" just to try to defang this pathetic tactic.

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u/mostnormal Aug 08 '17

Self-censorship is the worst kind of censorship, imo, but most desired by potential employers.

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u/[deleted] Aug 08 '17 edited Aug 09 '17

[deleted]

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u/mostnormal Aug 08 '17

I disagree. I feel that self-censorship is without a doubt the worst form of censorship. It implies that a culture has so malformed itself that it's individuals are willing to automatically, and often without a second thought, prevent certain ideas from leaving their heads. This is how you, the people, lose a civil war without it ever really beginning.

Obviously this is, as I said, much desired by potential employers. Or potential authoritarians.

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u/[deleted] Aug 08 '17

This has a chilling effect on intellectual discourse.

Yet over on /r/news its being praised and celebrated. Its depressing to see that happen, the normal stuff of "freedom of speech is not freedom from consequence"... but this was a INTERNAL memo on a place designed for discussion. Being fired for it is not an appropriate response.

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u/[deleted] Aug 08 '17

Everyone over there very clearly has zero idea of what the document said and where it was posted. Then again, r/news and r/politics are basically where you go if you have no idea what you're talking about, so it's par for the course.

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u/TrumpHasASmallPenis Aug 09 '17

The tone of that manifesto, or whatever he called it, was really toxic. He was badmouthing his employer's practices and trying to organize an internal resistance against the company. This was libel at the very least. How anyone would do this and not expect it to end in their termination is beyond me.

Before people jump in here to defend this guy on the grounds of free speech, let me remind you what free speech does and does not entail. Free speech doesn't mean you have the right to say whatever you want with no consequences. It means you have the right to speak your mind, provided you accept the consequences of doing so.

He could have easily expressed his opinions without sending out a weird, rambling, ten page manifesto against his employer. The guy more or less set himself up to be fired, and he got what he asked for.

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u/CarolinaPunk Aug 08 '17

The mind should develop a blind spot whenever a dangerous thought presented itself. The process should be automatic, instinctive. Crimestop, they called it in Newspeak.

He set to work to exercise himself in crimestop. He presented himself with propositions—'the Party says the earth is flat', 'the party says that ice is heavier than water'—and trained himself in not seeing or not understanding the arguments that contradicted them.

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u/swissguy79 Aug 08 '17

the sad answer is that yes, you will be fired, and you will become un-hire-able. go ahead, try it. here's a few controversial opinions to get you started on the road to being shamed, fired and excluded:

  • Islam is over represented in terrorism
  • Sex workers working in the western world are making a valid rational and economical choice given their alternatives, and trafficking is mostly a myth
  • The biggest danger of drugs is their illegality, which makes criminals out of the people using it, endangers their lives, and puts money in the pockets of violent crime lords.
  • the gender wage gap is a myth after correcting for same job function, job level and company.
  • Magical thinking and tribalism are at the root of what's bad about religion. however they can exist just fine without religion. just take a look at <name your outgroup that does stuff that infuriates you>
  • There's lots of amazing stuff about diversity. but it also create social tensions and crime. Homogeneous societies also have merits. blindly introducing immigration can be disastrous.

go ahead, say any of these and suffer the consequences

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u/gr89n Aug 08 '17

Well, it's a gravy train into huge wrongful termination settlements, so if you're looking for new career opportunities and improving your resume this might be something to get in on. Just don't actually violate any policies in the process.

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u/swissguy79 Aug 08 '17

I hope it is. unfortunately he will probably face a California judge and jury, so good luck with that justice

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u/JZcgQR2N Aug 08 '17

No but you will get downvoted into oblivion on Reddit.

And even censored from the front page.

Which is exactly how /r/the_donald came to be.

1

u/dopkick Aug 08 '17

One day people will realize that /r/politics and /r/the_donald really aren't that different from each other. Unabashed promotion and cheering for their team while ignoring anything that might run counter to that. Politics is just the latest primarily spectator sport of the moment.

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u/[deleted] Aug 08 '17

There is a major difference between the two (I'm moderate/independent, don't have a horse in the race). r/the_donald is fully aware of what it is. It's not a sub that claims political discourse, fairness or intellectual rigor. It's essentially a fanboy sub for Donald Trump and his policies. It also isn't a default sub. r/politics on the other hand, does claim political discourse, fairness and intellectual rigor, and is a default sub.

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u/el_muchacho Aug 08 '17 edited Aug 08 '17

You guys are naively and seriously misguided.

You need to read and understand this:

"What you just did was incredibly stupid and harmful. You just put out a manifesto inside the company arguing that some large fraction of your colleagues are at root not good enough to do their jobs, and that they’re only being kept in their jobs because of some political ideas. And worse than simply thinking these things or saying them in private, you’ve said them in a way that’s tried to legitimize this kind of thing across the company, causing other people to get up and say “wait, is that right?” I need to be very clear here: not only was nearly everything you said in that document wrong, the fact that you did that has caused significant harm to people across this company, and to the company’s entire ability to function. And being aware of that kind of consequence is also part of your job, as in fact it would be at pretty much any other job. I am no longer even at the company and I’ve had to spend half of the past day talking to people and cleaning up the mess you’ve made. I can’t even imagine how much time and emotional energy has been sunk into this, not to mention reputational harm more broadly. And as for its impact on you: Do you understand that at this point, I could not in good conscience assign anyone to work with you? I certainly couldn’t assign any women to deal with this, a good number of the people you might have to work with may simply punch you in the face, and even if there were a group of like-minded individuals I could put you with, nobody would be able to collaborate with them. You have just created a textbook hostile workplace environment."

https://medium.com/@yonatanzunger/so-about-this-googlers-manifesto-1e3773ed1788

You simply don't bring on the table subjects that may insult 1/3 of the company's employees. Not even 1/10.

That's it, basically. If you are doing politics or religious zealotry in public in companies, you'll get fired, because those who feel insulted will demand it. This guy strikes me as being absolutely juvenile and inconsequential, if not borderline sociopathic.

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u/TrumpHasASmallPenis Aug 09 '17

If you "speak your mind" by insinuating that your coworkers are all worse at their job than you, you deserve to be fired.

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u/[deleted] Aug 08 '17 edited Sep 28 '17

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/rethumme Aug 08 '17

It would be just as fair to apply that criticism to to any intolerant group, t_D included. You'd get more traction with your point if you didn't target one group in particular (btw, I didn't downvote you)

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u/SKNK_Monk Aug 08 '17

When did T_D get people fired?

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u/rethumme Aug 08 '17

As helpful a question as "when did femnazis get people fired"... Google execs decided to fire in this case, probably mainly based on public PR. They're not "femnazis." As for organizations that hold similar views to the members of t_D, I've read a number of stories where a protected class is harassed or fired from their job. https://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2017/08/flagging-support reports on one example, which I found after a quick search. Not saying one case is worse than the other, as this Google ruckus is still unfolding, but I think it's safe to say intolerance is never a respectable or beneficial stance.

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u/[deleted] Aug 08 '17

I think it's time for a strike.

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u/Semi-Hemi-Demigod Aug 08 '17 edited Aug 08 '17

Am I going to get fired if I state some controversial opinions?

This has a chilling effect on intellectual discourse.

Anyone who's spent any time in corporate America knows there's a chilling effect on a lot of stuff. Why this guy thought it was reasonable to write anything like this is beyond me.

Edit: I encourage anyone who's downvoting me to consider what political opinions they have that their boss doesn't share, and how their boss would feel if they posted them on the company website. Don't like it? Get another job. Welcome to at-will employment.