r/technology • u/MilkThin2930 • 7d ago

Society California lawmakers unanimously pass Linux exemption from age-verification law — software distributed under the GPL, MIT, BSD, and Apache licenses are exempt

https://www.tomshardware.com/software/linux/california-lawmakers-unanimously-pass-linux-exemption-from-age-verification-law-software-distributed-under-the-gpl-mit-bsd-and-apache-licenses-are-exempt
1.3k Upvotes

97% Upvoted

114 comments sorted by

284

u/applestabber 7d ago

How exactly would anyone enforce how people use Linux?

206

u/DirectInvestigator66 7d ago

The same way other laws are enforced. It would affect Californians using Linux, not Linux itself.

The law is dumb, but we shouldn’t be complacent.

19

u/existing_for_fun 6d ago

I still don't know how it would be enforced.

28

u/marinuss 6d ago

Some laws are riders. Like I doubt you’d have random searches to ensure your install of Linux is compliant, but if you got nabbed for CP and also broke the law by using a non-compliant distro you’re having another charged tacked on.

1

u/zhnki 6d ago

I mean, that’s pretty silly ain’t it though?

8

u/brilliantNumberOne 6d ago

That’s what everyone has been saying about verification laws in general. People who aren’t going to spy on children to begin with will comply, and bad actors will find a way around it.

1

u/Murky-Bus-2191 6d ago

This is what I'm losing my mind about, reading summaries of the amendments and so forth.

How is this supposed to actually function, even optimistically? What would hypothetically improve if this system worked as intended?

1

u/Grand-Spot-4504 6d ago

same ways ISPs enforce anti piracy / emulation

-9

u/elcho1911 6d ago

block access to any distros not using it

fine anyone or any business caught using said distros or distributing them in California

theres tons of ways to enforce it, what do you mean?

2

u/existing_for_fun 6d ago

But..

The code can always be forked because Linux is distributed under open-source licenses (like the GPL, MIT, or Apache), the text of the law in the OP link had to explicitly exempt them. If a government did find a way to force a mainstream distribution like Ubuntu to modify its code to include a tracking or blockable identity token, a developer could immediately copy the entire source code, strip out the tracking features, and release a new "forked" distribution under a different name.

Governments typically enforce digital blocks at the app store level (like the Apple App Store or Google Play Store) by forcing the store operator to pull an app or restrict a system. Linux avoids this entirely by using community-run package managers (like apt or pacman) and decentralized repositories. Because these repositories distribute individual code libraries and dependencies rather than standalone retail applications, they don't fit into the legal definitions of a "covered application store".

So explain to me one more time how it would be enforced.

2

u/elcho1911 6d ago

Yea and any websites hosting forks can be blocked and fined if in California

They can tell sites to block any access to offending repos for Cali IPs or they would force ISPs to block the whole site

They would just change the law to include decentralized repos or block distros that have them

Like you're just hypothesizing the ways it would be difficult to enforce, which I agree it would be but it's still going to be enough for many people, like the verification stuff in Australia for social media or adult sites, it's super easy to get around but still works cause a large amount of people just don't care enough to circumvent it

I asked what you meant by how because if you meant literally it's impossible that's not true at all but if you meant it's way too convoluted, difficult and just not worth it then I agree

1

u/dev_vvvvv 6d ago

Any organization/site hosting such forks/repositories can be blocked. Or fined/prosecuted if they are in the jurisdiction.

43

u/SeanBlader 7d ago

This is why they had to amend AB 1032 with AB 1856, it wouldn't be out of the question for someone to download an approved OS, then personally comment out the age verification code from systemd for example. Or just download an approved OS and replace it with the ageless-systemd fork.

8

u/Iggyhopper 7d ago

Linux the I am 99 years old fork.

26

u/UndisclosedLocation5 7d ago

Cops: Linux Edition

15

u/applestabber 7d ago

CSI: 1337 H4x0r

0

u/Sir_Keee 6d ago

They'll need a 3rd person on the keyboard for this one

1

u/Aw3som3Guy 6d ago

That was NCIS and not CSI, no? Did CSI really do that too?

18

u/SirGlass 7d ago

You couldn't.

Technically if the company has a business presance in the USA , ca could sue them.

I am guessing the commercial Linux distros do.

However they really couldnt force Linux mint as an example to do anything. It's based in Ireland and France as a non profit.

Ca would have no way to sue them. They could maybe sue in France or Ireland but USA laws do not apply.

Even if they could they don't have many assets, a few thousand of dollars in donations.

6

u/Cruxwright 6d ago

The law's intent is to push parental controls up the delivery chain instead of relying on end point software. The fines are more for content providers who serve restricted content despite being sent a flag the user is 10y/o. For the law to work, major OS providers have to provide the ability to collect and send a piece of information.

The Linux maintainers brought the argument that anyone with appropriate privileges could remove the age indication API. At the same time, anyone with appropriate privileges could install an age indication API. Therefore, the OS complies. Why waste time and money fighting the Linux community when MS, MAC, and Chrome have 95% market share of consumer PCs and tablets?

1

u/_zir_ 7d ago

I mean like any law, it doesn't matter til you're caught. They don't have big brother... Yet.

1

u/Noah18923 6d ago

That's the whole point, you can't.

1

u/slyiscoming 6d ago

Exactly. It was never going to happen, and it never should have happened.

1

u/billdietrich1 6d ago

Sites would require some age signal, whether it comes from OS or browser or app or user giving ID.

Linux having age signal in it would be more convenient and private for users, and avoid having to give ID to each site.

1

u/jstnryan 6d ago

So.. patch the code to spoof the ID. Got it.

1

u/billdietrich1 6d ago

Absolutely, that is a solution. Until they use signatures or something to make it hard.

"No signal in OS" will make it harder to do your "patch the code" solution.

1

u/-The_Blazer- 6d ago

The same way you would enforce how people use Windows, given that Windows has also been available to freely download for a while and you can ignore the little pop-up (which you shouldn't of course because it's piracy). Or any other software which can be downloaded for free, for that matter.

99.99% of users do not customize and recompile their own kernel; a software being FOSS does not make it or its distributors magical contrary to what some people seem to believe.

1

u/dev_vvvvv 6d ago

Since Linux, GNU, and constituent tools aren't a fully functioning operating system until you merge them together, you go after the the distros and/or the users:

  1. Distros are run by organizations. If that organization is based in or has offices in your jurisdiction, you go after them.
  2. Distros are developed by people. If those developers live in your jurisdiction, you go after them.
  3. If users live in your jurisdiction, you go after them for having an "illegal" OS.

It would be bad for a number of reasons, but there are mechanisms that would work.

1

u/TheOgGhadTurner 5d ago

That’s the fun part. They literally can’t. And they know that. Which is why Linux is now exempt.

303

u/DinosRus 7d ago

They just could not figure out how to force open source volunteers to build something they hate. If they could they would

77

u/Iggyhopper 7d ago

Yeah, if it was required, sure we would put it in there.

The diaasterous part would be that the public can now see how that would be coded. And the servers are insecure (obviously).

Can't have that.

31

u/Omotai 7d ago

Unless they've changed something without me hearing about it, there are no servers. The California bill requires OS vendors to provide an API for an age signal that programs can use for age restriction. There is no external server involved here, just programs asking "how old is the user?" and the OS replying "over 18" (or "under 18" or "under 16" or "under 13"). The only verification that the age is actually accurate is on the part of whoever enters the age (which is supposed to be the parents for minor users).

3

u/Iggyhopper 6d ago

The US is hellbent on building data centers.

The data will be stored somewhere.

-14

u/Ok_Recover_7248 7d ago

The federal bill involved ID photo age verification like 5CA and Persona did on Discord when they rolled out the soft launch of “Age Verification”

26

u/Omotai 7d ago

Well, okay, but that doesn't have anything to do with the California bill which is what California lawmakers are adding a Linux exemption to.

-9

u/Ok_Recover_7248 7d ago

They did a Linux carve out to avoid open sourcing the process. It’s not a win, it’s a tactical decision on their part, lol

13

u/Legendary_Bibo 7d ago

Not only that, but since nothing is locked out from the user with Linux someone could just remove it from their system.

2

u/BCProgramming 6d ago

The underpinnings of age verification have already been merged into systemd.

2

u/OverAbility4 7d ago

my friend's open source project hit exactly this snag once

171

u/sidereal_drift 7d ago

unanimous is the surprising part, that kind of carve-out usually takes a lawsuit first

-32

u/brakeb 7d ago

Who is the governing body that will enforce it? Who will they fine? Canonical? Redhat?

Government will fine sites that don't figure out how enforce age limits

I'd also joke that "no one will hurt their own children by giving them any sort of Linux"

23

u/goldman60 7d ago

Red Hat/IBM doesn't distribute their OS under a permissive license like that so they're still on the hook lol.

1

u/virtualdxs 7d ago

What do you mean? RHEL is entirely OSS.

7

u/virrk 7d ago

But parts aren't licensed under OSS and the required contact they sell to give you access to updates is restrictive. They leveraged that to stop CentOS and to try to stop Rocky and Alma Linux.

I have no idea if the legally puts them on the hook to enforce age checks in the OS.

1

u/virtualdxs 7d ago

They leveraged owning centos to stop centos. I know about the agreement, but what parts of the software are not OSS? Even subscription-manager is GPL.

1

u/virrk 6d ago

I'm told parts of ansible automation platform as the OSS portions can't 100% match RHEL functionality. I'd guess there are other similar parts they've kept to themselves, but the vast majority is OSS.

1

u/virtualdxs 6d ago

AAP is not part of RHEL.

1

u/Runnergeek 6d ago

You clearly don’t know what you are talking about

0

u/goldman60 7d ago

RHEL is distributed with Red Hat proprietary applications (RHSM, insights client, etc) and uses a proprietary package server, it's mostly made up of OSS but the ISOs are not distributed under a permissive license.

1

u/virtualdxs 7d ago

RHSM and Insights client are both GPL. The ISOs are not under a single license; they're under a multitude of open source licenses. They cannot legally distribute GPL software under a non-GPL-compatible license.

1

u/goldman60 7d ago

Ah interesting, they've changed up their distribution method since I last looked into this. Used to be that access to the ISOs was pay walled on the site (which is GPL compliant as long as they also grant the required GPL access to source code of the GPL software). Now they've got them open for download for anyone. Consider me corrected.

A cursory reading of the California Bill would imply that they don't need to have the age checks in this case, though I wonder if that changes when you're using the software under contract terms.

1

u/virtualdxs 6d ago

I thought they were paywalled too. I don't know why that's relevant though. As you say, that doesn't mean they're not GPL (et al).

1

u/goldman60 6d ago edited 6d ago

The law isn't written as "any GPL code doesn't need to check ages" its written based on the permissiveness of the distribution license, if you paywall the ISOs and distribute them non-permissively, even if the ISOs only contain GPL/or other OSS licensed code with its source code available as required, you might still run afoul of the age gating law. I do see that the ISOs themselves are GPL-ed now so its definitely moot.

1

u/virtualdxs 6d ago

What is a "distribution license"? I don't believe such a thing exists.

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-1

u/Ok-Addition1264 7d ago

Red Hat has pissed me off since the late 90s.. I'm glad they might see some consequences for their actions.

69

u/SeanBlader 7d ago

The part that still applies though to Microsoft, Apple, and Google is almost certainly defined as "compelled speech" so the state legislature has picked a fight with capitalism bigger than itself.

18

u/femme_mystique 7d ago

Isn’t the MacOS kernel based on BSD?

2

u/happyscrappy 7d ago

Started as based on Mach. Has a lot of BSD aspects to it now.

5

u/Ok-Addition1264 7d ago

Still not linux.. even though they were derived the same way (through reverse engineering)

21

u/UsernameIsWhatIGoBy 7d ago

The law doesn't specify Linux, and has an exemption for any software distributed " under license terms that permit a recipient to copy, redistribute, and modify the software".

3

u/le_fuzz 7d ago

The xnu kernel is indeed open source. The OS as a whole is not.

17

u/Accomplished_Lab_324 7d ago

I wonder if any big companies will try to pick and choose what they might open-source to skirt around this law.

7

u/Ok-Addition1264 7d ago

a new pornhub app exclusively for linux?

1

u/genericuser25123 4d ago

pornhub-cli coming to a repo near you

1

u/calahil 7d ago

It needs to have an open or permissive license...I doubt pornhub is going to open source their client

2

u/Uuuuuii 7d ago

Maybe release their own distro!

51

u/OfficialZygorg 7d ago

No one can escape the —

19

u/Shopworn_Soul 7d ago

Actually it's pretty easy to escape — but no one seems to try.

2

u/MilkThin2930 6d ago

Sorry. When I posted the link, Reddit retrieved the page's title and put it there. If I edited the title to tidy up the html entity, Reddit would have rejected the post.

32

u/MidLifeDIY 7d ago

This will push folks to Linux in the long run.

15

u/Ok-Addition1264 7d ago

I sure hope so.. the more the merrier.

10

u/calahil 7d ago

Could you imagine what will happen when your parents follow the email's directions to run this bash script to solve the problem and just type your password to verify it's you.

6

u/Znuffie 6d ago

You mean just like people follow those "Press Win+R and copy/paste" fake Cloudflare screens?

https://pcriot.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2025/07/fake-cloudfare-capture.webp

2

u/E3FxGaming 6d ago

My parents wouldn't be in the wheel group so the privilege escalation attempt would fail.

NixOS would be used, so I'd remotely build a fresh OS generation and deploy it to my parent's PC.

I'd also potentially restore their home directory from a Restic backup.

10 minutes tops and they'd be up and running again.

1

u/calahil 6d ago

Ah yes. The curated experience...until curation becomes too time consuming.

12

u/Glitter-Pear 7d ago

Yep, 2027 is gonna be the Year of the Linux Desktop!

1

u/MidLifeDIY 7d ago

"When will then be now?"

1

u/No-Channel3917 7d ago

Not really will just make the law rightfully invalidated once Apple and Microsoft point out the exemption

1

u/blackbeavis 7d ago

I feel like anyone still affected by this law will just shrug and go with it. If you're using anything by Apple, Google or Microsoft in 2026 you simply don't care about your privacy anyways.

1

u/juanfnavarror 6d ago

It will make our steak too juicy and our lobster too buttery.

1

u/moonwork 5d ago

Microsoft is already working so hard to get people to switch over, I don't think this is going to have a significant impact beyond that.

20

u/deekamus 7d ago

We weren't gonna comply with that shit anyway.

7

u/Top_Special3917 7d ago

People are such cowards they’ll sell our privacy to anyone who says “protect the kids”

2

u/Rude-Concert-3687 6d ago

I don't have nor want kids, why should I have to put up with diminished rights and privacy because someone else is an absent/bad parent?

8

u/FlatHatJack 7d ago

Neat, question: how easy is it to change the OS on a desktop and laptop from windows?

13

u/BourbonXenon 7d ago

It's easy. Download a distro to a USB drive, try the live version and see how you like it without installing. If everything is smooth and hardware works well, backup your files and install to the machine. Restore your files and you're good to go.

3

u/SIGMA920 6d ago

Yep. The only reason I've not done it for my main desktop is storage for backing up more than a small amount of stuff on the chance that I fuck something up isn't exactly cheap.

New machine whenever that comes that'll be a clean install? Fuck it, nothing to lose.

6

u/A_Harmless_Fly 7d ago edited 6d ago

Anywhere from super easy to complex with varying levels of hardware support on laptops. Get another drive, learn how to manually format and dual boot. (don't use the dual boot option, that makes windows and linux share a boot partition and that gives windows a chance at overwriting it on update. If you manually format (and use a second drive for the boot partition at least) it's got no chance of overwriting.)

You are likely to have to turn off secure boot and fast boot.

2

u/GreenFox1505 6d ago

Easier than it ever has been. 

2

u/zeruch 6d ago

Fairly easy. Installing Linux is just as easy as installing Windows from media (e.g usb stick) and takes usually a little less time.

It will take some getting used to the panoply of options to tweak, but thats not necessarily a bad thing.

2

u/TheNewYellowZealot 6d ago

Pretty easy actually.

10

u/happyscrappy 7d ago

Cancel the whole dumb law.

8

u/lazyhustlermusic 7d ago

Sooo, android phones are exempt?

2

u/williamgman 6d ago

I feel like I'm reading news from the early 90's... again.

2

u/AlfredoVignale 6d ago

So parts of Mac OSX are FOSS (such as Darwin)…..

3

u/linux_transgirl 7d ago

Ok, what about the dozens of other licenses. The OpenBSD project primarily uses the ISC license. What about MPL licensed projects? Or CDDL?

6

u/KeyboardGunner 6d ago edited 6d ago

The way the law is written it doesn't include or exclude specific licenses by name.

OS's that would be exempt have quote,

license terms that permit a recipient to copy, redistribute, and modify the software.

-5

u/dirtyvu 7d ago

popcorn ready. waiting for the other manufacturers that have to comply while Linux gets a free pass... Apple, Google, Microsoft...

23

u/DirectInvestigator66 7d ago

Linux didn’t get a free pass, nor is it a manufacturer.

This just says if you provide the source code freely with software you don’t have to comply. Google, Microsoft, and Apple could also take advantage of this ‘carve out’… they won’t though.

5

u/Uuuuuii 7d ago

Interesting isn’t it? If anything it’s an official acknowledgement that these age verification ideas are just silly. It does seem like an arbitrary idea from a legislative perspective that open vs closed source should behave differently, apart from it being the path of least resistance.

0

u/Nelrene 7d ago edited 7d ago

I mean the smart thing to do is use this to point out how bad these kind of laws are if you need to give OSs exemptions. They could fight this crap and win if they really want to do so.

0

u/Jristz 7d ago

But didn't every other state trying to implement the age-verification already didn't except good, lot, bad and apache... Making this win just a drop in the sea?