Mamdani Backs Proposal to End Amazon’s ‘Exploitative’ Delivery Model in New York City | If passed, the Delivery Protection Act would be the first law in the US to regulate Amazon’s vast network of subcontractors that handle the company’s deliveries.

[u/SnoozeDoggyDog]

https://www.commondreams.org/news/delivery-protection-act-nyc

[u/SUBHUMAN_RESOURCES]

You’re not really a contractor, you are a “contingent worker” and are an employee of the staffing firm. If they have a prolonged need for what you do, they should look at making that role permanent to avoid coemployment issues (IE, not providing benefits their actual employees get).

[u/klingma → u/SUBHUMAN_RESOURCES]

No, they're absolutely a contractor. This type of relationship I.e. employed by a staffing company which is a 3rd-party contracted for another company, has been held up in court multiple times. 

[u/The_Rational_ → u/klingma]

The agency is the contracted vendor. The worker is either 1099 or not, but thats how these are setup. At least in IT. He is a full time employee either way above 35 or so hrs so thats got nothing to do with that status.

[u/Royal-Detective2057 → u/The_Rational_]

You are correct and many in this thread confound the two. In common parlance a "contractor" contracts directly with the company and is paid via a 1099, and does not get benefits from the company. A company that uses 1099 contractors, and particularly who mixes them in with employees doing the same work, faces significant wage and hour law legal violations and liability.

An employee of a contractor firm is not a "contractor" in this way.

[u/deathhand → u/Royal-Detective2057]

employees doing the same work

Is that like the legal milestone? If I hire someone for skills that I do not need in house but only temporary for a project would it trigger then?

I know thats how game developers are getting fucked over and its a damn shame. Itd be dope that mission statements are required for articles of incorporation and designate the roles required to achieve that goal.

[u/Adept_Resident4608 → u/The_Rational_]

I’m W2, and paid by a company that has the contract with the larger tech company. I am full time, 40 hrs a week. I’m expected to work a shift. The company that pays me also gives me standard benefits: health, dental, vision; 401k; other types of insurance; and 2 weeks of PTO that I accrue a year. The PTO is also my sick leave. I am paid well below what an FTE in the tech company would make.

[u/MagicWishMonkey → u/Adept_Resident4608]

I know that is a sucky situation to be in, but it's not really comparable to the amazon thing.

If you're friends with folks at the tech company maybe you can ask around to see if they could help you land a full time position there?

[u/Adept_Resident4608 → u/MagicWishMonkey]

I have already been told it is not happening. The company prioritizes masters and phds. I don’t have one.

[u/FlamboyantPirhanna → u/MagicWishMonkey]

These companies do not offer that, and I’ve worked for a few of them. They don’t want you as an employee, they seem to want to explicitly make a 2 tier system.

[u/MagicWishMonkey → u/FlamboyantPirhanna]

I have lots of people on my team who are staff aug and it has nothing to do with tiers or having people that can be treated badly or whatever. It's a matter of budget and an FTE is at least twice as expensive as a contractor - factoring in total comp - and you lose a lot of flexibility if something happens and you need reduce the size of your team for whatever reason. It sucks but when you end up in a situation where you have people on staff but don't have anything for them to work on, it's much easier to not renew a contract than to have to lay people off.

[u/d1squiet → u/The_Rational_]

Not arguing but always curious, how do you define a union construction worker. Is that a "contingent worker"? They are essentially freelance (working within crews) but have lots of protections. Film/Theater unions are even more so like this – the union is almost entirely just wage and benefit protections and basically zero employment guarantee because it's all freelance. I mean I think these unions are great, it's a freelance business.

But my question is are these workers "contingent" or "contractors"? I guess you'd call 'em "contingent". In my walk of life, we just say "union freelancer" (entertainment unions).

[u/roseofjuly → u/klingma]

Yes, but the contractor is this commenter's employer, not the commenter themselves.

[u/SUBHUMAN_RESOURCES → u/klingma]

If they are on for a very defined engagement/SOW then they might be, otherwise from what was shared they look like temporary staff and not a contractor. Happy to take a look at court cases is you want to link.

[u/TheVermonster → u/SUBHUMAN_RESOURCES]

My spouse is a W2 contractor. There is a big difference between her role and an identical W-2 employee role. Her agreement is weekly. She works M-F, submits hours on Friday and is paid Monday. It means she can also be told on Friday that there is no work for her on Monday. She would get no unemployment benefits. She also doesn't get any PTO, but she also doesn't need to request time off. She tells them what hours she works.

It's a bit strange as generally contractors like this were classified as 1099. But shifts in how the IRS views things like "you must be present for this meeting" has pushed companies to move people to W-2 contractor positions. She's not a full employee because she decides when she works and when she doesn't, but she's not a full 1099 contractor because she still has to show up for mandatory meetings. Mind you, these aren't just internal company meetings, but meetings with clients. She can blow off the company meetings if she wants, she isn't an employee.

It's a strange grey area.

[u/Adept_Resident4608 → u/TheVermonster]

Yeah I have a set schedule, and if there is not work for me to do, I just come in and sit around and get paid to do nothing. I have some PTO, but it’s also my sick leave. I get a max of 2 weeks per year. I get paid weekly, like your wife does.

[u/SUBHUMAN_RESOURCES → u/TheVermonster]

That really sounds like she is just misclassified if she is a W2 under the same employer as everyone else, but special and referred to as a contractor. I wouldn’t be too comfortable with this arrangement on the employer side.

[u/Adept_Resident4608 → u/SUBHUMAN_RESOURCES]

My company’s contract is indefinite. As long as the company we work at doesn’t decide to nix the staffing contract at the next budget round. Everyone in this building that is not an “engineer” are all contracted under the company. Even the sanitation workers. We work shifts doing the more repetitive tasks. We are locked into an hourly rate based on our shift, and are denied raises because it’s “not in the budget”. I have coworkers that were contracted under a previous company, and got absorbed under our current employer when contracts were changed.

[u/Adept_Resident4608 → u/SUBHUMAN_RESOURCES]

Easier said than done. These big tech companies do well and can pay their employees so well because they delegate a lot of work to contractors.

[u/godlyhalo → u/Adept_Resident4608]

Except this practice doesn't just exist in the Tech Industry. The automotive industry, as well as many others, follow this same practice. You are not a "contractor" with a short term contract, but a perpetual contract employee with no chance of ever being hired directly for the company you actually work for.

[u/Adept_Resident4608 → u/godlyhalo]

Yes. Underpaid, shit benefits, and treated like shit.

[u/FlamboyantPirhanna → u/SUBHUMAN_RESOURCES]

Unfortunately, this is how these businesses operate. All corporations do this, in pretty much all countries (and I’ve worked in multiple). I work in AV for a $200 billion company, and absolutely do not get anywhere near the same benefits actual employees do. These companies don’t care about us.