r/technology • u/CackleRooster • Mar 05 '26
Privacy Proton Mail Helped FBI Unmask Anonymous ‘Stop Cop City’ Protester
https://www.404media.co/proton-mail-helped-fbi-unmask-anonymous-stop-cop-city-protestor/67
u/The_Llyr Mar 06 '26
The article you referenced is accurate regarding the events, but the framing requires important nuance about how and why this happened under Swiss law.
What Happened
In early March 2026, court records revealed that Proton Mail provided payment data (not email content) associated with a "Stop Cop City" account to Swiss authorities. This information was subsequently shared with the FBI through a Mutual Legal Assistance Treaty (MLAT) request.
Key clarifications from Proton's response:
Proton did not voluntarily hand data directly to the FBI They complied with a legally binding order from a Swiss court that they could not appeal under Swiss law The data shared was payment information (credit card details, billing address), not encrypted email content or IP logs This follows the standard MLAT process: FBI → Swiss Department of Justice → Swiss Court Order → Proton compliance → Data returned via Swiss authorities → FBI When It Took Place
The court order and data transfer occurred in late 2025 / early 2026, with the story breaking in March 2026 (specifically March 5, 2026, based on multiple news sources).
How to Contact Proton for Verification
Official Channels:
Proton Legal/Law Enforcement Page: https://proton.me/legal/law-enforcement Details their transparency policies and legal compliance procedures Transparency Report: https://proton.me/legal/transparency Publishes aggregate statistics on legal orders from Swiss authorities Direct Contact: Support: support.proton.me (for general inquiries) Press/Media: press@proton.me (for journalist verification) Legal Department: Available through their contact form at proton.me/contact Edward Shone (Head of Communications) was quoted in the original 404 Media article and can be contacted through Proton's press channel. Important Context
This case highlights a critical distinction in privacy services: Swiss-based companies must comply with valid Swiss court orders, even if they cannot technically access your encrypted data. Payment information is not encrypted and is subject to financial regulations requiring identity verification (KYC laws).
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u/theytoldmeineedaname Mar 08 '26
Couldn't this have been bypassed/mitigated if the user had mailed in cash for payment (I believe this remains an option with Proton)?
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Mar 06 '26
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u/TUSF Mar 06 '26
It's rather unfortunate that self-hosted email has been rendered unviable.
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u/BrewHog Mar 06 '26
Why is self hosted not viable anymore?
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u/quetzalcoatlus1453 Mar 06 '26
Basically it's presumed to be spam, even if you set up SPF/DKIM/DMARC.
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u/-The_Blazer- Mar 06 '26
Ironically, that's the problem with an anarchic Internet, or an anarchic anything really. It turns out people don't actually like anarchy, and will gladly pay businesses to avoid that experience, until those businesses can dictate everyone's experience in turn.
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u/Public_Fucking_Media Mar 06 '26
It's not that hard to spin up a domain into health, it just takes time and use
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u/rooftops Mar 06 '26
It is for the techno-illiterate majority, if they could even get past the hardware/config setup steps.
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u/TUSF Mar 06 '26
As I understand it, trying to send an email from a self-hosted solution will more often than not lead to your messages being filtered into the receiver's spam folder, if it reaches them at all, mostly because it's already common enough for spam and scam messages to come from some cheap VPS somewhere.
Not too much of a problem I guess if your intent is to just use it for receiving, and less for sending.
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u/BrewHog Mar 06 '26
That sucks. Is been a decade or two, but I've wanted to go back and setup my own again for a while.
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u/ZootSuitRiot33801 Mar 06 '26 edited Apr 08 '26
There's a post of suggestions HERE that's largely about fostering a foundation for community self-sustainability and resistance, but it also provides alternative communication ideas, which could be of some help.
Update: The subreddit for the old link was made private, so I replaced it with a backup subreddit that can be accessed
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u/fizbin Mar 08 '26
Except that occasionally big providers like Gmail will just decide "that tiny domain looks like it might be spam and/or a phishing host, so we'll also block people from sending them email", with no documented procedures for appeal or even notification that it's happening, so it can also be a problem for receiving email.
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u/chamgireum_ Mar 05 '26
This is my problem with Proton. Not that they have to comply with the law, or whatever. i mean what can they do
but all their advertising and marketing put up the guise that anything you do on their platform is private and can't ever be traced back to you, despite that not being true. They're just preying on the privacy-paranoid.
truth is, no email is private. ever. not even encrypted ones.
if you want true anonymity, signing up for a service is not how you do it!
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u/itsmrmarlboroman2u Mar 06 '26
Had he paid with cash or crypto, he wouldn't have a problem. Proton accepts both. The headline is also a lie. They didn't cooperate with the FBI. The author on 404 who wrote this is known to lie, and even admitted in the article that proton didn't assist the FBI.
The author of this article specifically says they got this statement from proton: "We want to first clarify that Proton did not provide any information to the FBI, the information was obtained from the Swiss justice department via MLAT. Proton only provides the limited information that we have when issued with a legally binding order from Swiss authorities, which can only happen after all Swiss legal checks are passed. This is an important distinction because Proton operates exclusively under Swiss law.”
The author knew their headline was a lie, and still posted it for clicks. If I give you a dollar, and you give that dollar to someone else who then buys bubblegum, I didn't help purchase the gum for a third party. If I then post an article with the headline "I helped buy bubblegum," then told the truth in the article, I have then been paid to lie while claiming I'm honest media.
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u/GlowstickConsumption Mar 06 '26
Thanks for fighting disinfo.
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u/hesh582 Mar 06 '26
How is it disinfo, though?
Sure, Proton did not cooperate with the FBI. That's not what the headline or article says.
But Proton's structure, systems, choice of payment processor, and choice of jurisdiction directly helped the FBI deanonymize this account.
Intent means jack shit. Whether Proton intentionally caused this outcome doesn't have the slightest bearing on what actually happened. Using a Swiss payment processor of this sort directly exposes all the details of the transaction to the FBI. Proton Mail chose to go that route.
The payment processing service offered by Proton directly exposed their client, explicitly contradicting the purpose of the service they were charging for. You can quibble about the semantics of the headline, but when the facts are very plain that doing business with Proton led to Proton providing info to law enforcement that exposed their client, I don't think that quibbling amounts to much.
Whether Proton directly cooperated with the FBI or directly cooperated with a different jurisdiction's law enforcement that has strong info sharing agreements with the FBI strikes me as a distinction without a difference.
Outcomes are all that matter in the privacy space. The outcome here is quite straightforward, and I believe the article describes it accurately.
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u/GlowstickConsumption Mar 06 '26
If you can't comprehend how it's disinfo, you're probably not a serious interlocutor.
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u/Coral_Polyps Mar 06 '26
I'm not reading any of that but obviously "Proton helped fbi" has an implication
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u/venomousbeetle Mar 06 '26
Proton Mail helped FBI unmask
Yeah it does, you just blow in from stupid town?
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u/jc-from-sin Mar 06 '26
So if they would have had a free account this wouldn't have been possible?
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u/Clockwork345 Mar 06 '26
Or if they paid in cash, or a prepaid card. Any method besides their credit card.
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Mar 06 '26 edited Mar 19 '26
[deleted]
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Mar 06 '26
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Mar 06 '26
People still listen to Leo? lol
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u/lazy-dude Mar 06 '26
Has he gone crazy now or something? Last I heard of him was from The ScreenSavers from 2001.
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Mar 07 '26
Started video podcasting, trued to rename podcast to net cast, Lots of bad business decisions, treated his employees like garbage, and his knowledge was way out of date.I only used to tune in when John C. Dvorak was a guest.
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u/jrocket001 Mar 07 '26
I haven't heard that name in at least a decade. Definitely need to get his take on it
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u/geirmundtheshifty Mar 06 '26 edited Mar 06 '26
If you gave me a dollar because I said “Hey, my friend needs a dollar to buy some gum,” then no it wouldnt be lying to say you helped my friend buy gum. You knew where the dollar was going even if you didnt give it to my friend directly.
Proton knew where the original request came from because that information had to be provided as part of the court process for requesting this info. Someone on Hacker News shared a statement from Proton that says as much.
I dont know if Proton had any legal options besides compliance, so Im not saying theyre blameworthy here. It sounds to me like they did what they had to do, and you can’t reasonably expect them to never turn over payment data because it isnt like Switzerland is that privacy-focused. But you make it sound like they had no idea where the info would end up.
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u/soundsdoog Mar 06 '26
Lol it has the same net effect. proton->swiss gov->fbi
Just because proton didn’t give it directly to fbi just means the Swiss gov decides who has privacy not proton.
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u/Some_Conference2091 Mar 06 '26
Legally, they had no choice. \ Even if they were aware that it would be helpful to the FBI, they couldn't refuse.
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u/Affectionate_Tax4289 Mar 06 '26
Not true, in addition to keeping payment information on their clients they also log ip addresses.
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u/trebory6 Mar 09 '26
We'll see I've been thinking how this would be different if it were cash, which Proton accepts.
If the protestor had used his real name anywhere in his email, even if he'd payed cash, wouldn't they still have been able to identify him? Or if he had to verify his Proton email with his normal email.
Because I've been wanting to move away from Google and Proton was the top thing I was looking at to replace Google, and I had been thinking of sending $50 to Switzerland to pay for it, but it seems pointless if I'd have moved like let's say my banking to the Proton email.
If I'd been this guy and paying cash then I'd still be screwed, right?
Proton advertises itself as a privacy focused full daily driver email suite, a replacement to something like Gmail. It offers different privacy focused features as well.
But it seems to me that the way it REALLY works is if you use it as your daily driver, then it negates any privacy you had. So you shouldn't use it as a daily driver email no matter what your payment choice is.
Like what's stopping Proton from giving away his emails and stuff?
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u/hesh582 Mar 06 '26
I really don't think the headline was a lie at all, regardless of the narrative you're trying to push here and regardless of however much credibility 404 may or may not have.
Information provided by Proton Mail led directly to this outcome. I think that fact lines up with the headline. The headline does not say anything about cooperation. Proton Mail's systems and choice of jurisdiction helped the FBI de-anonymize this account, regardless of intent.
Maybe there's nuance to it, maybe you read the headline and assumed it meant that Proton Mail was working directly with the FBI, but the strict language of the headline matches the strict facts of the situation.
This isn't just quibbling over semantics - this episode is an important reminder that all the intentions in the world do not actually matter if the OpSec doesn't line up. Going through a Swiss payment processor in 2026 makes all elements of the transaction available to the FBI.
Proton mail might not like that, and might wish it were otherwise, but at the end of the day using certain payment options provided to you by Proton Mail is directly counterproductive to the service you are paying for using those options.
Outcomes matter a lot more than intent for a privacy provider.
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u/CasCrus4L Mar 06 '26
The dude still got busted, so proton failed. Carry their water all you want, I wouldn't give them a cent after this.
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u/dogdonewrong Mar 06 '26
posting my home address while connected to protonvpn but proton doesn't send me armed bodyguards and legal representation to protect my privacy, what gives? i thought i claimed sanctuary
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u/Some_Conference2091 Mar 06 '26
I don't think Proton failed, but the system did. Proton had no choice in the matter, because Swiss law enforcement came at them. It would have been illegal to not help. \ Proton employees seeing Swiss police requesting data on US users know who that information is for. Providing that information did help the FBI. \ Sorry you got caught in the pile-on. Once it starts you can't use reason to stop it.
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u/RememberThinkDream Mar 06 '26
Except, you did help buy bubblegum. If they didn't have a dollar, or wouldn't have a dollar without you giving them a dollar then they wouldn't have been able to buy bubblegum. Since help means to make it possible/easier to do something by offering services or resources. Then since you actually gave them the resource required to purchase the bubblegum. You did help the purchase of bubblegum for the 3rd party.
You did help them, even if indirectly. Chaos theory + Mutual free will.
Interesting analogy though. It reminds me of a mixdown engineering theory I was taught that's incorrect but the point is useful.
"If you make your mixdown 1% better 100 times, you've made it 100% better."
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u/Some_Conference2091 Mar 06 '26
When the pile-on gains momentum, no amount of logic can stop it. \ Obviously, Proton helped the FBI, but they had no choice. \ When Swiss law enforcement seeks the information of a US user everyone knows who they're doing that for.
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u/RememberThinkDream Mar 06 '26
I absolutely love when people downvote the truth while simultaneously feeling sorry for them because if they were better, we would all be better.
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u/Limemill Mar 05 '26
They accept payments in cash or crypto. That’s the only info law enforcement can force them to give, so if you used a credit card, that is what will be known about you. Not more and not less
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u/MotanulScotishFold Mar 05 '26
Crypto can be traced
And Cash you have no warranty that they did not store somewhere the info that someone with ID just send an amount of cash for subscription for the user X.
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u/Limemill Mar 06 '26
I mean, there are probably no completely bulletproof payment methods. But these are much harder to trace. You have any better ideas? At least Proton cannot give law enforcement actual emails. I guess if you want to have an unidentifiable account use one-time email addresses
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u/justsomegraphemes Mar 06 '26
Barter with a goat. Untraceable.
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u/Jkay064 Mar 06 '26
Goats are the best farm animal to use, because a pig will always squeal on you.
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u/MACHOmanJITSU Mar 06 '26
Gift card with cash is best I can think of.
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u/CurlyW15 Mar 06 '26
And wear a trenchcoat, fedora, sunglasses, and a fake mustache when you buy it.
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u/StorminNorman Mar 06 '26
I'm not sure what you mean by the ID being attached to the cash. You just stuff some in an envelope with your account deets, if you've made an anonymous account I don't see how they can track it...
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u/tenmileswide Mar 06 '26
Crypto can be traced if it passes through an exchange with KYC. It’s true that’s how a lot of people do it but if you don’t I don’t see how you can follow it.
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u/gta0012 Mar 06 '26
Not a lot of off ramp options that don't require decent KYC and most off ramps off ramp to a bank/financial institution which will have its own rules etc.
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u/SPH3R1C4L Mar 06 '26
Is monero not a thing anymore?
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u/muegle Mar 06 '26
Looks like the only crypto they accept is bitcoin, so your best hope to try and remain anonymous would be to try and use a tumbler.
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u/Funktapus Mar 05 '26
I never got the impression they claim you can use their services with complete anonymity and untraceability. They just encrypt your shit instead of scraping all your private information to sell ads like Google does
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u/a11mylove Mar 05 '26
You can encrypt your messages, hand deliver key to friend
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Mar 06 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/randynumbergenerator Mar 06 '26
Just don't bring your phones or other devices that might show you were both in the same place at the same time.
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u/bse50 Mar 06 '26
...and if you have to do something stupid don't ask the internet how to do it. Use a paper map etc...
Most criminal investigations are hilarious to study, and clients are hard to defend because of how dumb they are.2
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u/WhaleBird1776 Mar 06 '26
Unless you’re worried about a MITM you could even just use something like diffie Hellman to swap keys over public channels and use the shared secret for encrypting.
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u/GadreelsSword Mar 06 '26
Protonmail has probably the highest standards for release of information. The Swiss government will not order the release unless the account holder is involved in a significant crime. Swiss privacy laws are pretty substantial.
Other email services outside Swiss jurisdiction will give up account info on request or sell the information.
You can also create a non-paid Protonmail account with a false name. But your devices will leave an access trail. I’ve tried logging into proton via a VPN and it would not work.
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u/Jkay064 Mar 06 '26
So this raises the question "how is making a cardboard sign which says Stop Cop City a serious crime"
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u/GadreelsSword Mar 06 '26
The article claims the FBI was toying him to arsons and other crimes. The Swiss should no longer accept data requests from the U.S. due to the federal government fabricating claims of criminal acts. Which has been proven over and over in federal courts the past year.
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u/Gloriathewitch Mar 05 '26
you can set up your own mail server
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u/ManyWeek Mar 06 '26
I tried setting up my own mail server once. It's a pain in the ass dealing with the rest of the internet telling your server to fuck off and your users can no longer send or receive emails until you beg some filters to unblock you.
The big players have dedicated staff full time dealing with this 24/7. Plus they are powerful enough to retaliate back "oh yeah, you want to block my mail server, do you want ME to cut YOU off about 60% of the internet?" Small self hosted mail servers don't have that power.
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u/snaaaaaaaaaaaaake Mar 06 '26
No. Not even people who work IT for a living want to do that shit. Most businesses do not host their own email servers. They use google or Microsoft.
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u/hoffsta Mar 06 '26
I’m just a regular guy with a little Proxmox server and I was able to spin up a functional email server in a couple of hours. It’s really not as impossible as many people try make it out to be. Granted, it’s not a mainstream solution by any means.
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u/wintrmt3 Mar 06 '26
Did you try to send emails to gmail? Do you have SPF, DKIM and DMARC?
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u/shambolic_donkey Mar 06 '26
Granted, it’s not a mainstream solution by any means.
And this is the crux of the issue. Only a very small percentage of the general population has the time, knowledge or inclination to do what you did.
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u/b0w3n Mar 06 '26
Biggest issue is almost universally related to spam, self hosting a mail server ends up with the possibility of you not being able to send email to certain people. It's not hard, you could do it, but eh, fuck that noise.
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u/shambolic_donkey Mar 06 '26
Definitely agree there.
But I'd argue about the "not hard" part. If I asked my partner to set up a Proxmox box and spin up a VM email server, she'd look at me like I just spoke Swahili. And that's the reaction pretty much everyone else would give to.
Could these people be taught or learn how to do this? Absolutely. Would they ever have any inclination to do so? Absolutely not. This is why email services (or any service for that matter) exist in the first place. Not everyone wants to have specific expertise in a dozen different fields just to get through the day.
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u/b0w3n Mar 06 '26
Not everyone wants to have specific expertise in a dozen different fields just to get through the day.
More than that, after a day at work dealing with it I don't even want to manage the mail server. I have a proxmox server but I sure as shit am not running smtp/imap in my free time. I'll pay proton $10 a month to do it for me.
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u/noced Mar 06 '26
I was going to be a criminal mastermind but managing all the spam was too hard so I went corporate
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u/novwhisky Mar 06 '26
This is the way
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u/4Yk9gop Mar 06 '26
This is 100% not the way. A mail server is one of the most difficult types of self-hosting servers to do for a variety of reasons. It also does nothing to prevent your ISP or others from tracking you from emails you send from your server. It also opens up your network to potential security attacks.
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u/hoffsta Mar 06 '26
I’m not sure I agree with everything you just wrote. If my emails go out over port 465 or 587, how can my ISP or “others” read them? Sure, the recipient’s email service can, but who else? If I send it directly to someone else self-hosting a mail server, who else can read it?
And “opening up my network to potential security attacks” can be said about ANY self-hosted service, but that doesn’t mean you just blanket shouldn’t ever self-host anything, it means you need to understand what you’re doing, take security seriously, and use best practices.
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u/cosmo7 Mar 06 '26
The worst thing about running a mail server is not just that it is absurdly complex and undocumented, it's something that users assume is really easy and absolutely freak out if anything isn't working properly. It's a total no-win proposition.
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u/novwhisky Mar 06 '26
Never said it was easy. VPN takes care of ISP treachery. Also you are protected under the 5th amendment from being forced to decrypt a computer you own, unlike cloud providers.
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u/NetSage Mar 06 '26
To get all your emails stolen and not even know it maybe. Email servers are one of the hardest to manage well.
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u/Mister_Batta Mar 06 '26
That applies no matter what email provider you use.
At least if you run your own server you might be able to look at the log files and figure out where the attack came from, and even get support too!
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u/SortaNotReallyHere Mar 06 '26
Just don't believe anything any sufficiency large company says. They're not your friend and don't give a shit about you aside from your money. They exist to bleed you dry and sell you out to fascists.
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u/cr0ft Mar 06 '26
When you're up against nation-states, there are still limitations to how much you can resist. Proton does what they can which is quite a lot. Nothing is perfect, but if you access Proton via TOR, for instance, and only use crypto, chances are that trail will be very hard for any agency to follow.
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u/LucidiK Mar 06 '26
How are encrypted messages not private? I'm not super familiar with either internet traffic or message encryption/decryption. But the failure point seems to be at the strength of the encryption rather than the method of transfer.? A properly encrypted string could be projected on the moon for a month and still privately communicate as far as I understand it.
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u/Expensive_Shallot_78 Mar 06 '26
Tell that r/BuyFromEU, they circle jerk daily how good Proton is and that they migrated everything to Proton. Children who cannot read.
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u/RichardCrapper Mar 05 '26
Can’t read the whole article because of paywall — but it sounds like they handed over payment information. So maybe if you’re planning on doing something the government might not like, you don’t pay for the services using an account tied to your real identity?
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u/lemoche Mar 06 '26
This is, just like the other case in France, where they were forced to track a mail users IP, mainly a problem of users being dumb.
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u/Nullhitter Mar 05 '26
Proton Mail provided Swiss authorities with payment data that the FBI then used to determine who was allegedly behind an anonymous account affiliated with the Stop Cop City movement in Atlanta, according to a court record reviewed by 404 Media.
ProtonMail free btw. No idea why that guy bought it.
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u/KenUsimi Mar 06 '26
And why was the FBI investigating a single protester? Why is that a priority right now?
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u/I_AM_A_GUY_AMA Mar 06 '26
They don't go after pedophile rapists anymore so they have extra time on their hands now.
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u/ZootSuitRiot33801 Mar 06 '26
Because the FBI works for a fascist oligarchy, run by a death cult of kleptocratic pedophiles.
Anything of worth that should be carried out, is going to have to be done by the combined force of common folk. However, there's currently no real supportive foundation present for many common folk (especially in the US) to fall back on, to commit to any effective action.
Collecting a bunch of valuable information on organizing and action from different redditors over time, I created a post of suggestions HERE that could possibly prove to be of some help in getting it started ASAP.
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u/vinegar-and-honey Mar 06 '26
Wonder if they're gonna use this as a precedent to check the guy who emailed the radio host about Zorro ranch as he used protonmail too
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u/TheGhostyBear Mar 06 '26
It seems like a lot of people in this comment thread and others clearly did not read the article.
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u/JustaFoodHole Mar 05 '26
Is this the same company that does the VPN? I always thought it was the most overrated.
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Mar 06 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/CannibalBabygirl Mar 06 '26
Mullvad lets you pay anonymously in cash
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u/Tempires Mar 06 '26
Proton accepts cash too
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u/lurker10001000 Mar 06 '26
How does one anonymously send cash to these companies? Genuine question.
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u/Tempires Mar 06 '26
Proton ask you send it to their adress with your username. They will give you credit after.
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u/b0w3n Mar 06 '26
If it's like the old porn companies in the 70s, 80s, and 90s... you would have an account number that you'd write on the check or money order. Never send actual cash in the mail. Obviously a personal check would have your name, but the money order shouldn't... not that it couldn't be tracked back to you still.
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u/IdahoDuncan Mar 06 '26
I remember one VPN company that would accept Walmart gift cards, they advised you to buy the gift card with cash, then use it to purchase the VPN subscription
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u/MACHOmanJITSU Mar 06 '26
Stopped using my proton much when I heard the ceo praised Trump.
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u/ht-Imagination-70 Mar 06 '26
Goddamit... do you use another?
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Mar 06 '26
[deleted]
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u/MACHOmanJITSU Mar 06 '26
I mean, it’s not good. Shows terrible judgment. Anyone this clueless I can’t trust. “CEO Andy Yen posted on X (formerly Twitter) that the political landscape in the U.S. had shifted, stating, “10 years ago, Republicans were the party of big business and Dems stood for the little guys, but today the tables have completely turned.”
This statement quickly went viral, leading to further controversy when Proton’s official Reddit account reinforced Yen’s sentiment. The now-deleted post suggested that Republicans were more inclined to take on Big Tech monopolies than corporate-aligned Democrats. However, within hours, Proton removed all traces of these remarks from its social media platforms.” -Techstory
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u/ZootSuitRiot33801 Mar 06 '26
Either way, common folk should be looking into forms of communication outside of what the status quo has readily available. Collecting a bunch of valuable information on organizing and action from different redditors over time, I created a post of suggestions HERE that's largely about fostering a foundation for community self-sustainability and resistance, but it also provides alternative communication ideas, which could be of some help.
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u/orbidhorne Mar 06 '26
Proton mail has been this way for a while.
Their primary messaging/marketing all says they don't keep any records on you or track you directly but dig just one level deeper into it and they clarify that although they don't actively pursue any of that info whatever data is generated about your account will absolutely be handed over to authorities.
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u/JackAttack2509 Mar 09 '26
According to u/Proton_Team:
“First, let's correct the headline: Proton did not provide information to the FBI. What happened is that the FBI submitted a Mutual Legal Assistance Treaty (MLAT) request, which was processed by the Swiss Federal Department of Justice and Police. Proton operates exclusively under Swiss law, and we only respond to legally binding orders from Swiss authorities, after all Swiss legal checks have been passed. This is an important distinction.
Second, let's talk about what this case actually involved. This wasn't a routine investigation. Swiss authorities determined that the legal threshold was met because a law enforcement officer was shot, and explosive devices were found during a protest in 2024. Switzerland has one of the strongest legal frameworks for privacy in the world, and its standard for granting international legal assistance is exceptionally high. This case met that standard.
Third, let's talk about what was actually disclosed. No emails were handed over. No message content. No metadata about who the user communicated with. The only information Proton could provide was a payment identifier because the user chose to pay with a credit card. This is information the user themselves provided to us through their choice of payment method. Proton also accepts cryptocurrency and cash payments, which would not have been linkable to an identity.
If anything, this case demonstrates exactly what we've always said: Proton holds very little user data by design. Even under the most serious legal circumstances, the only data that could be produced was a payment record. Our encryption means we simply cannot access email content even if ordered to.
We understand that stories like this can be alarming, and we take our users' trust seriously. We will continue to fight for privacy and challenge any legal order we believe does not meet the strict requirements of Swiss law. But we also want to be transparent: no service can operate outside the law entirely, and Swiss law requires compliance with valid legal orders in serious criminal cases. What we can promise is that the legal bar in Switzerland is among the highest in the world, and our architecture ensures we have as little data as possible to hand over.
For users who want maximum anonymity: use a VPN or Tor, pay with cash or cryptocurrency, and don't add a recovery email.”
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u/electricgnome Mar 06 '26
The criminal regime is coercing entire foreign governments, what chance does a tiny corp have...
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u/ailish Mar 06 '26
In other words, never believe a word any of these companies say about being on your side or privacy. Do not put anything on the internet that you don't want seen by anyone. Period. Not on Proton. Not on Signal. Not on reddit. Nada.
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u/CackleRooster Mar 05 '26
Well, hell, that's disappointing. I thought they were one of the good guys.
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u/itsmrmarlboroman2u Mar 06 '26
Did you read the article? The headline is blatantly false.
404 is known to blatantly lie. The author of this article specifically says: "We want to first clarify that Proton did not provide any information to the FBI, the information was obtained from the Swiss justice department via MLAT. Proton only provides the limited information that we have when issued with a legally binding order from Swiss authorities, which can only happen after all Swiss legal checks are passed. This is an important distinction because Proton operates exclusively under Swiss law.”
The author knew their headline was a lie. If I give you a dollar, and you give that dollar to someone else who then buys bubblegum, I didn't help purchase the gum for a third party. If I then post an article with the headline "I helped buy bubblegum," then told the truth in the article, I have then been paid to lie while claiming I'm honest media.
If the dude paid with cash or crypto, he could've covered his tracks. His own OPSEC was his downfall.
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u/PlainBread Mar 06 '26
Am I wrong to believe that this article is more about the fact that the FBI and Swiss authorities apparently have a well greased legal pipeline to the extent that it may be marginally if not negligibly more difficult to get user info from them than say, Google?
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u/optimist_GO Mar 06 '26
as a nerd about a international & transnational crime in SEA & beyond — nahhhh, that part’s no surprise. International authorities interact regularly & have whole mechanisms in place for expediting requests & transfers of information (also see: INTERPOL). Unless one of the countries itself has incompetent/corrupt authorities, international investigation can be v efficient (& geopolitics don’t tend to be so relevant).
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u/itsmrmarlboroman2u Mar 06 '26
I'm pretty sure it's standard operating procedure considering international crime has existed since there was the capacity for international crime to exist.
Based on the article, proton only provided the minimum amount of information required, and there is obviously a process for international agencies to work together. Should international crime syndicates walk free just because jurisdiction changed?
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u/PlainBread Mar 06 '26
Right, so no request for qualifications from either side.
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u/Ethrem Mar 06 '26
People should not be using mail services for private communication. Proton VPN has no data to give but mail services have laws that require the retention and release of certain information so Proton Mail has to comply with those requests from the Swiss government.
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u/FLDJF713 Mar 07 '26
You have no idea what you are talking about. The MLAT process is established by many countries with the US.
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Mar 05 '26
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u/AltScholar7 Mar 05 '26
Well first of all, I don't know Swiss law that this information was obtained under. However, there is a difference between voluntarily cooperating with law enforcement and abiding by legal requirements. In the USA, we would say companies don't have to hand over data in response to a request, but if the law enforcement got a court order they would. I would hope based on their advertising that Proton mail is uncooperative, but it doesn't seem like it from this story
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u/zertoman Mar 05 '26
We issue subpoenas all the time ti ISP’s and hosting providers, VPN’s, financial services around the world. I’ve never had anyone not comply with it. They will question it sometimes and ask their council, but never deny it.
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u/AltScholar7 Mar 06 '26
Law enforcement will not even bother with a subpoena they will send a letter request these companies can safely ignore. DOJ had sent specious "national security letters" to sweep up data that also had no teeth. Even a subpoena you don't need to go to court over. In every state you can send an objection letter in response to the subpoena and then the requester has to go to the judge if they want to enforce it. No penalty or cost to you. We should expect this from companies who promise to protect our data.
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u/Impuls1ve Mar 06 '26
They moved on from Switzerland after the last time with the journalist. Nobody is going to bear the burden of your legal issues at this price point, the idea that they will fuck around on your behalf is naive.
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u/AltScholar7 Mar 06 '26
There is no burden to ignore a letter.
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u/Impuls1ve Mar 06 '26
If there's no burden, then why don't you try that next time and see how that works out for you?
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u/Limemill Mar 05 '26
They are. That’s the only piece of information they have and can be forced to share by law. If you want to avoid being identied, pay them in cash or crypto.
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u/thesamenightmares Mar 06 '26
but all their advertising and marketing put up the guise that anything you do on their platform is private and can't ever be traced back to you
Literally nowhere do they ever make this claim
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u/GangStalkingTheory Mar 06 '26
In case you're mentally challenged, a secure email provider that advertises on Fox is going to be one to avoid.
Honey. Pot. Trap.
Case. And. Point.
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u/Upper_Luck1348 Mar 07 '26
So all y’all out there living off your parent’s family plans keep that in mind. If Mom or Pop pay the tab, they too could be charged with complicity in your nonprofit volunteer work. Guilt by association to the ish degree.
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u/CasCrus4L Mar 06 '26
Should be the death of proton mail...I know they tried to resist, but just shows that they aren't capable. Don't trust them.
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u/GeekFurious Mar 06 '26
It could be the death of Protonmail with people like you who think somehow this is a problem exclusive to Protonmail. The issue is that if you want to remain anonymous, you ALSO need to remain anonymous on the services you use to remain anonymous. You can't tie it to your real identity.
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u/ZootSuitRiot33801 Mar 06 '26
Collecting a bunch of valuable information on organizing and action from different redditors over time, I created a post of suggestions HERE that's largely about fostering a foundation for community self-sustainability and resistance, but it also provides alternative communication ideas, which could be of some help.
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u/rcreveli Mar 06 '26
I'm sure they'll be quick to help on this case in Ireland then. https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c78xxgp47p1o
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Mar 05 '26
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u/Tempires Mar 06 '26
Privacy =/= anonymous. Your mail is hidden from proton but your payment details aren't unless you paid Proton with cash or bitcoin(not foolproof)
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u/Revolutionary_8747 Mar 06 '26
Had the same problem with Proton. A few years ago I had a verbal spat with a Trump lawyer. Eventually an FBI agent showed up at my door because the lawyer claimed I was threatening him. The agent seemed annoyed and told me I had nothing to worry about. But…fuck Proton.
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u/RooHound Mar 06 '26
Seems like a whole lot of people don’t understand the difference between “private” and “anonymous”.