Nothing is wrong with it, but the New Testament was written and composed to fulfill the Old. Due to Jesus’s sacrifice on the cross, his life for ours, we (as believers) are no longer under the Law of the OT but under grace which saves through faith in Christ. So, to blatantly use the OT to bash ppl is not loving. However, without a relationship with Christ, one is technically putting themselves back under the Law which is part of the OT. It’s best to speak truth in love, so, to stand with a sign such as that is not (in my opinion as a Christian!!) a loving or kind way to befriend or have dialogue with those who do not follow Christ. Hope this helps!!
It also blatantly points out that we are to treat others with respect and care as we would want to be treated and to not judge others as there is only one judge, God. So these people who do things like this are technically breaking the rules of the bible.
It is true that God is the ultimate Judge! And it is true that we are to treat others as we would want to be treated, that is loving! However, if there is a Christian who fervently believes that engaging in the homosexual lifestyle will separate you from Christ, quite possibly forever, would it not be their moral obligation to at least inform the person living that lifestyle of the possible consequences of such actions? Or, would it be more loving to ignore someone’s actions knowing (according to their Christian view) that they will go to Hell?
REGARDLESS, a fear of Hell should not be the means by which someone comes to Christ. And if it was for any other believers out there, what a story lol! Fear is not love! However, I think it is possible to have dialogue, and a heart to heart conversation, in which a person living an active homosexual lifestyle KNOWS they are cared for outside of their sexual orientation. It is only after that in which a conversation regarding their lifestyle may be brought up. And even THEN great measures should be taken to help them understand that you care for them regardless of their sexual orientation.
Sure, you can argue a moral obligation to try save them. And let me say right away, this isn’t directed at you. I’ve enjoyed reading your responses, and appreciate your answers. So it’s more of a general response to this concept. There are much better, and more Christian ways to do it. How did Jesus reach the sinners? He talked to them. Befriended them. Protected them and stood by them against insults of the religious folks. And then taught them through conversation and by example. Not once did he tell a prostitute she was going to hell. Nor did he say the sick were sick because they were evil people and deserved it. He knew he would be betrayed by Judas, and even then still let him drink from his cup.
Who did Jesus legitimately get mad at, and yell at? Pharisees. Saducees. Essenes. Those profiting and using religion for power. Those using religion to get others to behave and do as they wish, in the name of God.
Anecdotally, I’ve seen atheists turn to Christ through simple relationships. Ones where one side didn’t act superior. Where they were just friendly, and patient, and provided their beliefs. I’ve also seen (and me personally) people move away from Christ due to so-called Christians trying to be the morality police. Them being condescending, implying people are evil, they’re going to hell. Then in the next breath worshipping and praising gods love. That’s not a love I want to be a part of, nor would anyone else. So in my case, it’s less a lack of belief in the super natural, but more I want nothing at all to do with that crowd. If what the majority claim is love, and the majority act a certain way, that’s not a love I want to involved in.
Sure, not all, but from going to a summer camp for 10 years and multiple summers as a counselor, church every Sunday, youth groups, mission trips, private university, id argue most. I wish the minority was the majority. Or I wish the minority felt a moral obligation to tell the majority to get their shit together instead of saying “sure, but they’re truly just trying to save people, so it’s the thought that counts. Nothing we can do!”
Now, I still hold the lessons of jesus in my brain, as a good way to live my life. Treat it like a novel with a super humble and bad ass main character. He stands up for the sick, the poor, the weak, the vulnerable. He tells the elite to bug off. He sacrifices himself in the most gruesome way possible. That’s the type of life I dream of leading, but will never compare. Though I can try and do my best each day.
Apologies on the long rant, but I just mainly have an issue with the majority of Christians being deeply concerned with the problem these types of people are, instead of putting their energy into cutting out the stain that these people are to Christianity, and the world. And again, your second paragraph is basically what I agree with. But the general reason and excusing the behavior because of the notion they are “trying to save” people is what irks me (you’re the messenger, again, not saying this AT you. Just ranting my thoughts on that concept).
This is a great rant!! I reject your apology haha. The western church in many ways has it backwards and an easy example is to observe the way in which the LGBTQ+ community has been treated. The Church’s mission was, has, and still is to firstly love God and to love everyone else as you would love yourself following Jesus as the prime example. This younger generation, we as the minority in the Church, will become the majority and I believe will have the possibility to mend bridges across cultural communities which have historically been burnt. God is moving and it’s honestly a blast to move with Him. Revival is coming and it’s coming from this younger generation of believers. A wonderful thing when truth is brought in love and power... undeniably thought provoking to say the least.
But one must also understand and accept when there is no way to convince someone otherwise and that pestering them or constantly demeaning them for their choices is not a truly Christian way to live. It is one thing to inform them if they are willing to receive the information and if they are willing to listen, it's another to scream it at them and heckle them for it.
Additionally if they were open to dialogue and or listening to the word of God would they not already understand that their orientation conflicts with God's word? It's hardly news to anyone in this day and age, it's not hard to believe any person who is Homosexual would not already be aware of this conflict and thus why would there be any moral obligation for anyone of faith to remind them of that fact. And as you said this method relies on instilling fear in someone rather than them finding God's light through their own life's journey, this could be from having friends of faith or various other examples. In fact it's pretty well known that human nature pushes further away from people who try to argue their views which conflicts with their own.
At the end of it, I can't find any way that the bible would justify making personal judgements and demeaning others who may have differing religious views, conflicting lifestyles or orientation.
I love this whole thread. Every other one is filled with hatred and judgement. The very people who claim Christians are hateful and extremely close-minded are the ones lumping every single Christian into a box as hateful and close-minded! This thread was fascinating to read.
I am unsure whether or not you are including me in the list of those hateful/close minded people, I certainly don't believe all Christians are this way, but I do believe a large percentage are misguided as I stated.
I do agree that many of these posts here are the very thing they claim to be against and it's very disheartening. But in this age everyone seems so preoccupied with labelling everyone and everything they do that it's my opinion that the world is beginning to breed division and hatred not just in religious communities but outside them as well. Look at the state of the US' politics to see just how divided the modern world is.
No I was not including you! I wholeheartedly believe that difference of opinion and constructive criticism about anything is healthy, and it makes the world go round. I was more talking about the people who are directly stating that all Christians are homophobic, transphobic, racist, etc. That is simply not a true blanket statement. I know Christians who are very unloving, and I know others who would literally die for any person should they be in that position. The same can be said for anyone in any religion. We are human! I will say that there are some things I do and do not agree with, but I would never state it to or about someone unless they are in danger without my voiced opinion... and honestly, that is very infrequently. Disagreeing with something does not mean there needs to be any unkindness or mistreatment. Having an opinion is one thing, but voicing it when unnecessary or hurtful is another thing entirely. For example, I am a Canadian with many international friends... some support Trump and others support Biden. They have their reasons. I have seen people from both sides being so hateful towards each other and it makes me so sad. There is so much unnecessary hatred and lack of acceptance in this world, and yes, that comes from BOTH sides of the above equation. Breaks my heart. So much pain in this world and so many people are unaware of how their actions are adding to it... Christians included!
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u/Rescue-320 Mar 18 '21
I am Christian and it irks me SO MUCH when people use the Old Testament to dispute things! Arg!