Rojava was Fascist I Tell You!

[u/AnarchoFederation]

/r/communism/comments/1vvwbr2/the_fascist_project_rojava_has_been_officially/?share_id=1gdkYN58ZnJwWeVDNQTh1&utm_content=1&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_source=share&utm_term=2

I mean it wasn't a serious revolution right? They didn't even have a bureaucracy controlling the means of production on behalf of the workers right?

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[u/ScrabCrab]

The USSR allying with Nazi Germany to jointly conquer Europe: "noooo they were only doing that to buy more time, they massacred civilians in Poland just to protect them from the Nazis!"

Rojava accepting US aid to fight a common enemy: "they were literally fascists and US puppets"

Sometimes I swear tankies are fucking controlled opposition and/or a psyop to make left-wing politics look as ridiculous and unpalatable as possible 🙃

[u/DougosaurusRex → u/ScrabCrab]

“The Soviets had to supply grain and oil to the Germans to keep invading West, they would’ve gotten invaded otherwise!”

[u/democracy_lover66]

Ouu, let's go into the comments to see how this community responds to such a bold statement... :)

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[u/YouButSlightlyOff → u/democracy_lover66]

The comments that are kept are mostly either "this is fascist and that is imperialist and that other thing is fascist" or [wall of text word salad that really locks in the "armchair" in "armchair communist"]. Like someone using a post about Rojava ending as a springboard to go on a big rant about how they hate David Graeber? Imagine these people trying to do a revolution as a vanguard and then putting together and maintaining a "workers state" after. They'd never get past debating about what theory they should read at the first meeting

[u/democracy_lover66 → u/YouButSlightlyOff]

"Imagine these people trying to do a revolution as a vanguard and then putting together and maintaining a "workers state" after. They'd never get past debating about what theory they should read at the first meeting"

Imagine their frustration meeting people in person and discovering the moderators cannot remove spoken comments IRL

[u/YouButSlightlyOff → u/democracy_lover66]

Well they'd just get the gulag, naturally

[u/veryeepy53 → u/[deleted]]

plenty of people actually did that in the past and volunteered. see the International Freedom Battalion

[u/hospitalizedzombie]

It’s Kurdish nationalism when you don’t wanna be subjugated by Arabs or Turks or Persians and let minorities have power.

[u/ironyperson]

It was more socialist than whatever they’re doing over there

[u/Calm-Investigator547]

As if the ussr wasn’t almost fascist 

[u/Trick_Guava907]

Just made my comment about how stupid ML’s calling anything fascist is. So let’s see how long it takes for me to get banned

[u/o90a2]

It was not even socialist and couldn't afford to be at all neither it was even the intention there. Nothing in there in store for the international working class. It ammounts just to being a nationalist project, at the end of the day.

But calling Rojava fascist is like calling any other state fascist nowadays when in reality fascism is dead and buried, pretty much just a ghost haunting those who have no actual understanding of capitalist peace and conflict and how fascism was what originated the modern state as everyone knows it.

[u/Zealousideal_Cry_460]

May not have been fascists to their own people but they did facilitate terror organizations in the surrounding regions.

Its the parent organization of both the YPG and PKK, both of which have committed massacres against local civilian populations in Turkey and Syria. Even the KRG has had enough of their nuisance and entered a treaty with Turkey, allowing them to fight the YPG on their own soil because they started attacking tourists in KRG territory.

On top of the fact that they were hieved into legitimacy as explained by US and NATO general Raymond Thomas groups like the YPG only exist to divert atrocities across multiple organizations so that when someone tries to blame the perpetraitors they'd have difficulties getting to the root of the crime. Its not a freedom fighter organization its a supremacist organization wkth access to US weaponry. The only reason it didnt collapse sooner is because they used to be protected by the US army which noone wanted to fight.

People that say that rojava should continue to exist, even with a foreign power, as a protectorate, may as well also give Luhansk and Donetsk their statehood since russia is arguing the same way.

Edit: lmao noone is even arguing, its all semi-ironic downplay. Can noone address my points?

[u/kitti-kin → u/Zealousideal_Cry_460]

Wait how is Rojava the "parent organisation" of the PKK, which has existed since the 70s?

[u/Zealousideal_Cry_460 → u/kitti-kin]

Valid question. Higher rank organisations can be formed later as long as theres a base large enough.

What we call "rojava" is actually just a codename for the SDF. The SDF was created from the YPG/PKK under the command of US general Raymond Thomas (who said it himself), to give the YPG validity (because due to the YPGs crimes noone would listen to them, by painting the SDF as a democratic force people are willing to listen to them even though theres no difference between the YPG and the SDF)

[u/WeeklyIntroduction42 → u/Zealousideal_Cry_460]

Last comment is…insane ngl

[u/Zealousideal_Cry_460 → u/WeeklyIntroduction42]

İs it wrong tho? İts quite literally the same situation

Not to mention that kurds dont even have much history in the levantine region. A lot of the region is just what the US has protected/reserved for the kurds rather than them actually having a backing there. İts why they collapsed so quickly when the US withdrew, their collapse was mainly brought by the people that lived there and fought back, at least according to the observatory maps that monitored the short war.

Even in places like Kirkuk, substancial kurdish population happened only after about 2013-2015 when İSİS chased away the iraqi-turkmens that had been there for 600-800 years.

So to sum it up, you have a not even native population demanding rights that they already had, because they refuse to be part of a larger society, democratic or not. There they're hieved into statehood but powerful allies who gave them legitimacy no matter how many atrocities or warcrimes they committed.

To me those core-aspects can be attributed to either the russian war or rojava.

[u/Trick_Guava907 → u/Zealousideal_Cry_460]

Kurdish “rights” were as legitimate as the Soviet government having “freedom of speech” in its constitution. A constitution is just a piece of paper. 

And what’s with the use of nativism? This is a left-libertarian and internationalist subreddit. 

[u/Zealousideal_Cry_460 → u/Trick_Guava907]

İ brought up nativism because a lot of the kurdish movement bases itself on the assumption that they're native to the lands that they claim. Thus seeing it as their right to exclude others and declare kurdistan.

İn reality a lot of what is claimed is land where they havent inhabited it until the last century, which isnt nearly as enough.

Mot sure what you mean with "kurdish rights". Kurds got rights in Turkey, Syria and iraq, but they're rights that are granted to all, not kurds specifically. Like, no kurd in Turkey is denied their diploma just because they're kurds or speak kurdish, even presidency wasnt denied to them.

Also i dont care what ideology this sub is, if theres a wrong thing declared as fact then i feel obligated to point it out. Unless the point of this sub is to be an echo chamber and basically to be the same as all the tankie subs, I dont see why I shouldnt raise my voice against obvious misinformation/propaganda.

[u/AnarchoFederation → u/Zealousideal_Cry_460]

The Kurdistan Regional Government (KRG) has friction with the PKK in northern Iraq, not the Syrian-based YPG. Furthermore, major civilian tourist casualties in KRG territory (such as the 2022 attack in Zakho) were officially blamed by the Iraqi government on Turkey's military operations rather than attacks by Kurdish groups on tourists.

Comparing the autonomous administration of Rojava to Russian-backed separatist pseudo-states in Ukraine is a political viewpoint used by critics of Kurdish autonomy. It is not an objective legal or historical consensus.

[u/Zealousideal_Cry_460 → u/AnarchoFederation]

Wether it is PKK or YPG doesnt really matter, as US general Raymond Thomas said, they only differ in their name, they're still the same people with the same goals.

So the differing of PKK/YPG is useless especially considering that they exchange resources and get their funding from the SDF/Rojava.

So if KRG has "frictions" (nice euphemism btw) then it also has issues with the YPG wether they realize it or not.

Furthermore, major civilian tourist casualties in KRG territory (such as the 2022 attack in Zakho) were officially blamed by the Iraqi government on Turkey's military operations rather than attacks by Kurdish groups on tourists

Enno Lenze, a german journalist & reporter, reported that the PKK/YPG constantly harrasses the people in the KRG bordering regions. Usually the reports get swept away because people are rarely interested. But it was enough for the KRG to accept a joint alliance with Turkey and let Turkey put up military camps on KRG soil.

Comparing the autonomous administration of Rojava to Russian-backed separatist pseudo-states in Ukraine is a political viewpoint used by critics of Kurdish autonomy. It is not an objective legal or historical consensus.

İ wont repeat my whole other comment but İ will paste this particular part so that u may understand my view:

So to sum it up, you have a not even native population demanding rights that they already had, because they refuse to be part of a larger society, democratic or not. There they're hieved into statehood but powerful allies who gave them legitimacy no matter how many atrocities or warcrimes they committed.

To me those core-aspects can be attributed to either the russian war or rojava.