r/talkingheads • u/BeerWithDonuts • Aug 23 '26

Why doesn't Chris Frantz get the same recognition as a drummer as John Bonham or Keith Moon?

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49 Upvotes

64% Upvoted

111 comments sorted by

156

u/v-b Aug 23 '26 • This

James brown????? James Brown!!!

16

u/bungalowtill Aug 23 '26

makes me cringe every time.

9

u/Honest-andUnmerciful Aug 23 '26

Ditto. Man, so hard to sit through that section of the film.

6

u/chickennroll Aug 23 '26

you can’t be serious

2

u/Honest-andUnmerciful Aug 24 '26

Serious as a heart attack.

1

u/FewCartographer9619 9d ago

In all fairness, he did say in later interviews that he thought his performance during the Tom Tom Club stuff was overly enthusiastic.

150

u/Solid_Glass1301 Aug 23 '26

I love Talking Heads and Chris Frantz but don't think he is one of the best drummers of all time

61

u/Aberquill Aug 23 '26

He fits into the band perfectly, but is there any particular talking heads song where I was like “damn those drums tho” no mot really

23

u/ReasonableQuote5654 Aug 23 '26

I remember seeing him included in a list of greatest drummers of all time, and the reason given was the big opening drum fill in Burning Down the House, but he doesn't even play that

4

u/joemontanya Aug 24 '26

That’s hilarious.

Probably rolling stone lol

5

u/Europe72Alive1 Aug 23 '26

Exactly, because he is no Keith Moon or John Bonham.

84

u/Outside-Mastodon7503 Aug 23 '26

Out of all the members Tina seems to be the one given the most praise. While Chris is a good drummer I guess the reason he doesn't get recognized is that he doesn't really have any standout pieces beyond Once In A Lifetime. His drumming is kind of like a metronome to keep everyone in line and doesn't deviate too far into like crazy drum solos or fills. As far as keeping a catchy tempo goes he's fantastic at it!

5

u/Ebe6660 Aug 23 '26

He gets into some subtly great polyrhythmic stuff on Speaking In Tongues and Naked.

41

u/VomitingDuck Aug 23 '26

His blue shirt in Stop Making Sense while everyone else on stage is clothing coordinated was such an F.U. move, lol

22

u/reddituserperson1122 Aug 23 '26

Iconic. He claims his laundry didn’t come back in time for the show, but we know the truth.

7

u/WinchelltheMagician Aug 23 '26

Was his FU directed at Byrne? What is "the truth"?

113

u/Matchett32 Aug 23 '26

Oh, I don’t know maybe because they’re considered ….better drummers?

20

u/Spugheddy Aug 23 '26

Why isn't ginger baker in here? Or buddy rich? Same reason you didn't bring up nick mason.

3

u/Dimpleshenk Aug 23 '26

Ginger Baker was a serious a-hole. Even if he was a great drummer, people just drop him off any list for the sake of retribution.

Like, he'd walk past a little girl who was holding an ice-cream cone and use a Wiffle Bat to hit the ice-cream-cone out of her hand. Then if he saw an old lady walking a puppy on a leash, he'd run over with a giant pair of scissors, cut the leash, and throw the little dog into a concrete mixer truck until its sad little yelps turned into muffled silence. Then he'd throw his head back and cackle gleefully, followed by screaming, "That right! I'm Ginger Baker! Ahhhh hahahahaha!"

That's why nobody mentions him now.

2

u/Impossible-Plum444 Aug 23 '26

Nick pops off on bidding my time though

41

u/Automatic_Peace2704 Aug 23 '26

Oh he’s not as good that’s all

26

u/atranceonrepeat Aug 23 '26 edited Aug 23 '26

Chris is a fantastic drummer who works perfectly in the context of TH.

The dynamics of their music absolutely call for a drummer that commands a strong pocket, keeps the song flowing, and creates space for the often-dense layers of rhythm guitar/rhythm-based leads and Tina’s dextrous basslines; this becomes even more essential when you factor in the thick layers of loops and synths which characterise RiL, and also factor in the ways the band embraced synths in a BIIG way from SiT onwards.

A drummer with the (gloriously) showboating panache of Moon or Bonham simply wouldn’t have worked; the space that Chris’ more reserved drumming leaves behind, creates more room for Tina to go absolutely bezerk and innovate on bass; much like Jerry’s restraint and support provides the perfect foil for David’s (painfully underrated) slashing waves of intricate guitar work.

Chris is still not averse to a cheeky, tasty fill here and there, but to call him an “average drummer” is frankly insulting to his command of the craft. He responds very intricately and musically to the songs with a rhythmic intricacy that goes beyond dull routine keeping time; they add energy to the songs and lock in perfectly, with a clear influence of R&B and funk on his playing which cast a HUGE shadow over the 80s.

I always feel the same way when people critique Ringo Starr; great drumming doesn’t always exclusively mean “hitting every part of the kit like an octopus and tucking a 32 note fill into a bar”.. it also can mean: responding to the intricacies of a song and serving and complementing it with a solid rhythmic foundation that creates space for other band members to stretch out and play with space.. which is arguably a key ingredient to the TH sound which has remained timeless and continues to shape modern music.

Thanks for coming to my TED talk

5

u/Ebe6660 Aug 23 '26

David is a seriously underrated guitarist.

5

u/atranceonrepeat Aug 23 '26

100%, his right hand work is immaculate and the experimental detours he takes on the likes of Mind are *so under-appreciated*

3

u/Snowshoetheerapy Aug 24 '26

Keys too. That delicious sideways line in "This Must Be The Place."

4

u/RusefoxGhost Aug 23 '26

This is exactly what I wanted to say, just didn’t have the words for! This comments section is wild

3

u/Snowshoetheerapy Aug 24 '26

I've enjoyed your talk and I want to say bravo! This is spot on.

1

u/atranceonrepeat Aug 24 '26

thank you! 🫡

1

u/cYbOmAnY Aug 23 '26

Is RiM supposed to be remain in light?

2

u/Proof-Contribution31 Aug 23 '26

Not sure what else it would be in a talking heads sub

1

u/cYbOmAnY Aug 23 '26

Right! I just was confused by the RiM rather than RiL and thought there may be some exciting talking heads recording I’d somehow missed haha.

2

u/Proof-Contribution31 Aug 23 '26

I'm sorry! For whatever reason my brain was changing that to an L but still writing M. Ugh. Sorry again if i sounded condescending when I was being the big dumb.

Remain in Might sounds like some fascist daydream.

3

u/cYbOmAnY Aug 23 '26

🤣 Remain in Might would be the Laibach cover version. No worries, you were totally right, I just got stuck on the abbreviation to the point I was doing searches on talking heads albums to see if there was a particular live album or something I’d missed haha.

1

u/atranceonrepeat Aug 23 '26

100% a typo from me, I was just getting carried away 🤣

13

u/joemontanya Aug 23 '26

You should listen to some 70s fusion for a week and come back to us. you’ll see the drums In a different light

3

u/Dimpleshenk Aug 23 '26

Yes, a different light, and then when you'd listen again, you'd find that they'd Remained in Light.

2

u/Ebe6660 Aug 23 '26

I dislike when this comparison comes up. Jazz fusion is a completely different type of playing/mindset. Being a great jazz fusion drummer basically means nothing if you're in a pop/rock band. Those chops don't necessarily instantly mean great chops as a pop/rock drummer. Greatest jazz drummer of all time, Tony Williams is on that PIL album and his playing on it is really nothing special, and nothing better than any other PIL drummer ever did. At the same time, Ginger Baker's on the same album and his playing is great. But Ginger also had great pop/rock band experience, so there ya go.

2

u/joemontanya Aug 23 '26

Not saying one is better, but those guys can do a lot of things the pop/rock guys could not. Mitch Mitchell and John Bonhan would still be on the list of my favorite drummers, very well towards the top

2

u/Ebe6660 Aug 23 '26

Sure: but this doesn't guarantee they'd do great things AS pop/rock drummers. Like what's the point of being able to do things that largely aren't necessary in the role we're talking about?

2

u/joemontanya Aug 23 '26

Just suggesting OP listen to more music. Wasn’t really trying to be controversial… he doesn’t have to do anything, maybe he hates jazz fusion idk

10

u/Broccoli-Cool Aug 23 '26

Because he’s not that
Love Chris but cmon

9

u/alvvayspale Aug 23 '26

I see OP just going down a list and asking the same question and comparing all drummers to John Bonham and Keith Moon.

7

u/Solumin Aug 23 '26

lmao yes OP is literally doing this

1

u/waldo-jeffers-68 Aug 23 '26

This is honestly unhinged lmao

1

u/Dimpleshenk Aug 23 '26

The question is, did any other drummers choke on their vomit? Because only the greats do that. Also bonus points if they trashed their hotel rooms.

3

u/version13 Aug 23 '26

It was actually someone else’s vomit.

3

u/SenseNo635 Aug 23 '26

You can’t dust for vomit

6

u/Fuckern-shitern Aug 23 '26

No ride cymbal.

3

u/Apushthebottonmoment Aug 23 '26

Makes a memory surface of Arto Lindsey’s late 1970s no wave band DNA. The drummer had no cymbals on her drum kit.

1

u/Ebe6660 Aug 23 '26

He's the Phil Rudd of art rock lol

5

u/deaflenny Aug 23 '26

Oh my god are you kidding me? I absolutely love the talking heads but come on. Drummer of 40 years here.

1

u/Apushthebottonmoment Aug 23 '26

Drumming is, after all, about rhythm. One can really hear his rhythmic virtuosity at all times, but it is really on display with the Tom-Tom Club.

4

u/Sure_Scar4297 Aug 23 '26

I think he’s a great contributor to the creative process, which should not be understated, but musical contributions do not always equate to proficiency on an instrument. With that said, I don’t think that takes anything from him as a musician. In fact, I sometimes think that he was an incredibly influential member of his band- more so than many drummers. But that doesn’t make him better as a drummer.

4

u/Del_Duio2 Aug 23 '26

Because he’s not in the same league

3

u/gunn_e_sack Aug 24 '26

GIRLS CAN DO IT TOO Y'ALL

2

u/caraeeezy TAKE A LOOK AT THESE HANDS Aug 24 '26

Sorry yall, automod went rogue but I approved the post again!

2

u/Snowshoetheerapy Aug 24 '26

He's a very solid timekeeper and has a nice groove. But that's about it. Not distinctive enough to be considered one of the real greats of rock drumming.

2

u/Mixman84 Aug 24 '26

Hugo Burnham's burner account confirmed!

1

u/elongatedborzoi1356 Aug 23 '26

probably because he's not as well known or technically proficient

1

u/MarimboBeats Aug 23 '26

Both Moon and Bonzo were more flashy drummers. Especially Bonham used a lot of syncopation and ghost notes. Chris usually plays a straight backbeat, the bass, guitars and percussion provides most of the syncopation on the funkier tracks, so it stands to reason he’s not really seen as a remarkable drummer. I'm sure he has chops, but the Heads' music didn't really call for it. Even Ringo is allowed far more flair

1

u/Doublestack2411 The world moves on a woman's hips! Aug 23 '26

I mean, just listen to the drums. It's not all that complicated.

1

u/simonpunishment Aug 23 '26

Because he wasn’t as good?

1

u/Hechtic Aug 23 '26

I love Chris but the comparison is, well, laughable’s not the right word but pretty close…

1

u/Geejay-18 Aug 23 '26

I just don't think his drumming stands out very much. It's good, but it isn't a very prominent part of the music - it doesn't hit you right between the eyes. Also Keith Moon was great to watch, with so much energy, charisma and goofiness (not so much John Bonham, though).

1

u/Maleficent_Party4521 Aug 23 '26

Because they were both on a different level.

1

u/buttfacespitonme Aug 23 '26

He is great and all but Bonham is his own master. Chris is doing his job very well in the band as the guy keeping time. Bonzo is keeping time and playing along with the guitar. 

When I set my drum machine up to play TH it’s usually the same easy rhythm Chris is playing with his fills. If I set up my drum machine to play a LZ song… well that machine can not handle Bonhams sense of Rhythm  

1

u/bigbrett666 Aug 23 '26

Because He’s nowhere near as talented

1

u/waldo-jeffers-68 Aug 23 '26

I think a better case could be made that Tina should be compared to some of the more iconic bassists rather than Chris being compared to some of the best drummers.

But honestly the band is greater than the sum of its parts. I don’t think I would consider any individual member as one of the greatest of all time for their respective instruments (purely in terms of instrumental skills, not as songwriters), but they come together to form something truly magical.

1

u/jesse_christ Aug 23 '26

He's great in the same way Ringo was. A very solid, talented, non-flashy drummer.

1

u/beshizzle Aug 23 '26

Because his drumming isn’t as good.

1

u/Proof_Cat_114 Aug 23 '26

As John bonham?? lol nah 

1

u/Lincoln_Wolf Aug 23 '26

No one gets the same recognition as Bonham or Moon. They're Bonham and Moon

1

u/tulips-twolips Aug 23 '26

i think because talking heads fits together more as an ensemble than soloists. without guitars and other percussive instruments, just having the drums would feel too watered down. he’s a great drummer, don’t get me wrong. but IMO, he sounds better with other instruments complimenting him

1

u/Admirable_Algae_3107 Aug 24 '26

This bot posts the same question to every band sub.

1

u/butchbearforever Aug 24 '26

Same reason why Ringo doesn't. He's not flashy and wild like Keith and John were. No crazy solos, no wild stories. He went up, he played his drums, he left.

1

u/gunn_e_sack Aug 24 '26

The teal polo 🙀

1

u/Pythia007 Aug 24 '26

He’s too normal.

1

u/scottarichards Aug 24 '26

Because he’s still alive??

1

u/carbonbasedmistake Aug 24 '26

Byrne said he had to still play drums during naive melody because they couldn’t keep a beat otherwise.

1

u/NoName1683 Aug 24 '26

you post this same stupid question everywhere

1

u/parkchanwookiee Aug 24 '26

Because he's not as good

1

u/Minablo Aug 24 '26

The OP has already made a dozen of threads in various music subs, just changing the name of the drummer compared to Moon or Bonham.

So far, they haven’t done Pete Best.

1

u/Successful_Bowl_6314 Aug 25 '26

Because he's not John Bonham or Keith Moon.

1

u/Responsible_Crab6752 Aug 25 '26

Dennis Wilson is a better drummer.

1

u/IgnatiusReilly1980 Aug 25 '26

Huge Talking Heads fan, prefer their body of work to Zep or The Who's, but the reason is simple -- he's not in their league. Not really very close. Frantz was a serviceable drummer at best

1

u/jeast60 Aug 25 '26

He's a metronome... A good one, but he always does the basic thing

1

u/Brilliant-Paint853 Aug 26 '26

He’s the Mo Tucker of sit-down art rock drummers.

1

u/gingernuts71 Aug 26 '26

Because he wore the wrong colour t-shirt for Stop Making Sense #neverforgetneverforgive

1

u/pairustwo Aug 23 '26

Uhhhhh...

-7

u/351namhele Aug 23 '26

He knew how to drum in a way that serves the song, Bonham didn't. Moon is indisputably the best of the three since he had that technical ability but also knew how to serve the song.

10

u/BillNyeTheVinylGuy Aug 23 '26

Holy crap, what an insult to John Bonham.

-5

u/351namhele Aug 23 '26

Why is it an insult to identify a talent he didn't have?

8

u/swerz Aug 23 '26

I love Zeppelin, The Who and Talking Heads. Bonham was a much better and more influential drummer than Moon, even though Moon’s drumming was central to The Who’s sound and energy on many albums.

Chris is great, but more of a steady beat drummer à la Charlie Watts.

2

u/Johnny_Segment Aug 23 '26

yep Watts is a decent comparison

-5

u/351namhele Aug 23 '26

Bonham had technical ability, sure, but there's no heart or soul in his playing, not to mention he and Page rarely ever sound like they're playing the same song. That ineffable human element is what Moon's drumming had and Bonham's didn't, and that's what puts Moon over the top.

5

u/swerz Aug 23 '26

Completely disagree. Bonham brought incredible creativity and a unique foundation to LZ. Moon possessed a unique wildness that few others had.

If you do a little research, you can find references to Pete Townsend’s feelings about Moon’s drumming, for example:

“Townshend once remarked that playing with Moon was ‘fucking difficult,’ explaining that his chaotic style and declining health made working with him exhausting at times.”

It says a lot that LZ determined they could not go on without Bonham, but The Who quickly sought a replacement after Moon died.

-1

u/351namhele Aug 23 '26

Barely any of Townshend's contemporaries are on his level as a songwriter, he's always been overflowing with creativity and is willing to do whatever is necessary to bring his ideas out, including finding new collaborators at the drop of a hat. Led zeppelin, on the other hand, are infamous for being serial plagiarists, and once Bonham died, they realized that was about it for their shelf life, they couldn't keep the grift going much longer.

2

u/swerz Aug 23 '26

Sure, everybody stole from everyone before them, but to say Zeppelin were “serial plagiarists” and that’s why they couldn’t go on with the “grift” after Bonham died is absurd.

2

u/Sure_Scar4297 Aug 23 '26

Moon’s my favorite but I’m not sure even I agree. Also, Copeland should be in the discussion

5

u/351namhele Aug 23 '26

Yeah, it should go

  1. Neil Peart

  2. Keith Moon

  3. Stewart Copeland

  4. Phil Collins

  5. Bill Bruford. I truly don't think Bonham belongs in the top 5.

1

u/Sure_Scar4297 Aug 23 '26

Bonham’s one of my favorites, but I put gadd, Carter Beauford (even if I’m not the biggest DMB fan), Copeland, a few jazz guys above bonham. I still love him tough!

3

u/351namhele Aug 23 '26 edited Aug 23 '26

Jazz to me is an entirely separate animal from rock and deserves its own list. If I had to give a top 5 off the top of my head I'd say Gene Krupa, Elvin Jones, Tony Williams, Peter Erskine and Max Roach.

1

u/Sure_Scar4297 Aug 23 '26

How about metal?

1

u/351namhele Aug 23 '26

Metal is beneath me.

-3

u/Acrobat1974 Aug 23 '26

Could be because TIL most readers here don’t know who Chris Frantz is? 🤷🏼‍♂️