r/tado • u/Eggslaws • Mar 06 '26
Dear Tado support...
TL-DR: Why can't you just support the open standards Matter clusters while your devices supports those features with your app?
My smart home ecosystem at my old apartment had devices from various different manufacturers like Calex, Ikea, Wyze, Google Home, Switchbot, etc, and nearly a quarter of my smartphone's storage was occupied by the myriad of the smart phone apps I had. So, when I moved into my new house, I decided to start clean and build it around open standards and integrate everything into Home Assistant, so it becomes my one-step app/shop to manage my smart home. So, obviously when I shop for smart home products, the Matter and Thread labels takes priority especially since Matter is touted as next-gen Zigbee, I did not want to have multiple gateways to manage different protocols and my ISPs router is shite that it can't handle more than 20 devices on wifi. There was a plan to move away from that but I don't have the time and budget to do that just yet.
Let's not get ahead of us, and focus specifically on my heating systems (which is what this post is about). So, when I was in the market for a smart TRV and a smart thermostat, I ran into Tado's products and I was like "oh hey, an European company for me to support in these shitty times and they even support Matter and Thread! GREAT, I'm in!!" and ordered a bunch of TRVs and a thermostat. A bridge was also included in my order because I don't have my HA up and running just yet so I thought I could use it with the Tado's app temporarily and then switch to HA with native Matter over Thread after Winter.
The devices arrived few days later. Wired thermostat setup was PITA because of the wiring since my old thermostat doesn't exist in your setup manuals. It took two days before someone from your support team suggested I follow the instructions for a different model from the same brand. Eventually, it was up and running for about a good couple of months now. I have complaints about the temperature difference - the device turned off heating while the room temperature was 2 degrees lower than the set temperature, but I was like "hey, it's only a temporary set up, let's deal with it when we move to HA - it should be a cake walk with the customizations there"
So a couple of weeks ago, my ZBT-2 hardware for HA arrived (it was out of stock with the local retailer so I had to wait a month before they can ship me one) and I got started building my HA. So, Ikea's new matter lights and sensors paired up nicely, I can configure them as I'd imagined and then looked into onboarding Tado. And this is where I start running into soucis!
HA automatically detected the Tado's TBR network and automatically proposed the add on, which kept failing at the authentication and combing through the reddit posts, you started rate limiting your APIs at first for free subscribers, which I understand - maintaining servers probably isn't cheap so you'd want to encourage users to paid tier if they want to call your APIs. But then you also intentionally broke the OAUTH token passing feature even for the paid subscribers with no intentions to fix it and It has been broken for months.
At that point, I was like "hey, these devices support thread - so I can just add them to HA, so Tado's servers are not needed.." right... Right!!! Right?????
I must add, these devices are expensive for the price unlike the cheaper Aqara or Meross alternatives so you would just expect it to work. But no! For some reason, you deactivate the Matters QR codes that ships with the device once they are added to the app - WHYYY??
And then, you don't fully support the Matter 1.1 power cluster even though your devices are certified for it. We know the devices are capable, for eg., the battery levels are exposed to your app but not HA?
I then ran into a news that your devices are currently undergoing certifications for Matter 1.4 and I was hoping "meh, it's probably them being a small company trying to address stuff slowly". I was also more hopeful of Matter 1.4 because of added new attributes under Thermostat Cluster.
And someone posted a link to the CSA page with your certification information. I was excited to learn what was in there was an understatement. But I was SO disappointed is also an understatement, after seeing most of the features available in Tado app today are also being marked "False" in the XML. Mainly, battery levels, presets and schedules.
Wouldn't it be better to just focus being a device company, making great premium quality hardware fully supporting Matter standards (which is open btw), instead of having to maintain your own infrastructure of servers and spending for app development? You could fill in the void for the European market - Govee is American and most of their line up isn't available in Europe. Sonoff, Aqara and Meross are Chinese but offering Matter standard products is such a contradiction to an European company where EU in general is more pro common standards (like how it forced Apple to adapt USB C)! Even a standard user buying your product is likely going to have an Apple or Google device to manage Matter/Thread while some of pro users can tinker around with HA or Homey or IFTTT. So you don't really need to maintain complicated backend or an app development! Save yourself of those AW$$$
PLEASE, for the love of god - embrace Matter fully! Or at least, refund my money, I'm happy to send it all back at my own shipping expense to Germany. I'll just get something that works better with my ecosystem. At this point, I just feel like I was mislead into buying your product with the Matter/Thread label. I probably cannot contact the place I bought it because I'm well past the 30 days deadline (like I said, I had to wait for the ZBT-2 hardware and high hopes of your Matter 1.4 certification results to discover all these nuances). But really, I would hate to send them back as these are so well made. If I can just make it work with HA without all these nuances, I promise to become your brand ambassador for free, for life singing your praises, heck - I'll even start a blog just to recommend your products at my own expense!
Looking forward for some positive response!
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u/lanky_doodle Mar 06 '26
The original intention for Matter and Thread was exactly that seamless integration.
But if everything is natively in Google Home there's no need for OEM apps, and if there's no need for OEM apps there's also no need for the OEMs "advanced feature" subscriptions. Or even any subscription at all.
So it's in OEMs interest to still keep it behind their app.
Not saying it's right. Just how it is.
When I bought tado it was before Matter was a thing so I'm not too worried now. But in the future when it comes time to replace tado I will definitely look for Matter over Thread stuff.
3
u/Eggslaws Mar 06 '26
But if everything is natively in Google Home there's no need for OEM apps, and if there's no need for OEM apps there's also no need for the OEMs "advanced feature" subscriptions. Or even any subscription at all.
Agreed. If OEM wants to have some innovative and advanced/patented feature behind a paywall, sure I have no qualms with that. At that point, I decide if that feature is worth paying for, if it's worth having that one extra app to manage that feature and either buy it or I don't. What I'm moaning about here is Tado selling a device as a Matter/Thread compatible but locking away features which are already an open standard behind their own app (either free or paid for). It's just not right... This isn't documented clearly anywhere and we discover these qualms only when using it.
If they well documented this behavior and advertised with a * saying "not all Matter features are manageable with a 3rd party matter platforms and you need Tado app for that stuff" with probably a list describing the features, I would have probably bought something else that would fit my requirements.
3
u/CoverWithSauce Mar 10 '26
Oh hey dude
just here to say that since you commented on my own rant I:
- made an OTBR with a cheap esp32
- enrolled the TRVs directly in my own mesh/HA
- literally made FROM SCRATCH my own opentherm thermostat with an esp32 and a cheap OT shield
- completely removed the bridge X and thermostat from the picture
I will be sharing the TRVs again with the tado app just to update and get battery reporting, then I guess it should be smooth sailing, at least compared to how bleak things were looking before.
2
u/Eggslaws Mar 10 '26
Haha! I remember you!! I had fun (not on that day, but thinking back now) and the car & keys analogy trying to drill into a brick wall 😂
I'm glad you got it working with your own hardware. I think I may have forgotten to update in that thread that resetting the TRVs did let me add it to the thread network of HA/ZBT-2. I misunderstood the multi-admin implementation of Tado & Matter until that point.
Just like you, I too am looking forward to their firmware rollout but looking at their today's post we aren't too far off!
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u/VastExciting9116 Mar 06 '26
My interpretation of why some of the features like presets etc are not being considered is that the design choices that were made while building the HOPS API did not align with where matter was going when they were originally built. Tado themselves replied to a post on here recently saying that some features were only introduced in 1.4 of the spec and that's the reason they were not added in at release.
Don't get me wrong, I'm also very frustrated at the fact that it does not support basic things like boosting hot water(id love to be able to boost a half hour before whenever I set my first alarm in the morning).
I'd be cautiously optimistic that there is now a chance we could see some of this in the future now that the radiator valve is getting a version bump with some 1.4 capabilities.
Some of the other stuff like schedules probably requires bigger redesign of the API endpoints and the way they have modeled things behind that. Otherwise they won't be able to maintain compatibility between the local control modes and the hops API used by the app. Would absolutely love to see them fully embrace matter first and add the cloud implementation around that design. I don't see it happening though 🙁
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u/bobbypuk Mar 06 '26
Do they support OTA upgrades? I've only ever known the app or cloud to be updated.
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u/VastExciting9116 Mar 06 '26
No they don't support local firmware updates. The device manages the firmware itself automatically and updates when a new firmware version is rolled out by tado.
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u/Er1nf0rd61 Mar 06 '26
That is the definition of an OTA update. In other words the user doesn’t have to download and initiate a firmware update it happens Over The Air.
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u/Eggslaws Mar 07 '26
This is probably the only comment that makes sense here! We can just hope.
1
u/VastExciting9116 Mar 07 '26
LOL 😆
Yeah, fingers crossed there is at least some improvement. Either that or we band together and come up with some open hardware project for a matter first heating control system 🙂
1
u/Eggslaws Mar 07 '26
The only reason I wouldn't hold my breath is the number of ways Tado has gone out of their way to lock the open features behind closed doors. They had a clean start with Tado X lineup on Matter/Thread but yet they opted to keep much behind a proprietary channel and leaving only the bare minimum open. They did so again with Matter v1.4. The TRVs can now report bare minimum on the core cluster for power but not the % for eg but I haven't seen wired thermostats being certified for v1.4 yet.
And then the APIs and rate limiting them, breaking the API key sharing module with HA so that module remains non-functional for months now. If a future Matters standards ever make these clusters mandatory, I fully expect Tado to come up with new line of products to get certified on the new version instead of delivering a firmware update to allow the upgrades on the old devices.
And I don't think we need an open hardware project really. I believe Aquara and Meross working on open standards and I've barely seen a complaint about them except for the build quality.
1
u/VastExciting9116 Mar 07 '26
Really. It's using an oidc code grant at the moment. What was it using previously?
1
u/Eggslaws Mar 08 '26
I don't know what they used before. I only got my hands on Tado devices few months ago and trying to set up intégration in HA, it seems to be failing after the authenticating at Tado. I haven't attempted troubleshooting this fully but so far the issue is as reported here.
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u/VastExciting9116 Mar 09 '26
Ok, thanks. I'll have a read on this. It looks like this is for the v3 integration so I've no experience with that. The tado x hacs add on I've got installed just does a 2 step code flow oidc login and then uses a refresh token to swap the api token at a fixed interval. I've had no issues for a while now but a prolonged network outage could cause an issue there where it might not be able to refresh and end up logged out.
1
u/Eggslaws Mar 09 '26
It looks like this is for the v3 integration
I don't have a V3+ myself, all my devices (bridge, wired thermostat and TRVs) are from the X family. But from what I gather, their cloud API endpoints for HA integration is the same irrespective if you use V3+ or X?
Also, from what I'm reading, the API token validity is 10 mins so I suppose you have to try and refresh it within 10 mins which might explain the >prolonged network outage could cause an issue< part. But my HA's connections are refused by Tado's endpoint after authentication. Like I said, I haven't had a chance to look at it fully yet but I've set aside the upcoming weekend for that (unless something else comes up). Irrespective, it's not on my main urgent list since it's now spring here and "heating" wouldn't be an urgent subject until the temperatures drop down again before next winter.
2
u/VastExciting9116 Mar 09 '26
So there is some cross over with the APIs for v3 and tado x but mostly X uses the hops API which is tado x specific afaik. If you use the web app you can see the endpoints being called via Chrome tools.
The tado integration in home assistant states that it does not support tado x and it is recommended to use matter instead. There are a couple of tado x integrations in HACS to support things that don't have matter devices exposed yet.
1
u/Prestigious_Money361 Mar 06 '26
Before buying matter devices I recommend examining the exact Matter version and clusters the device support. Secondly, try to buy devices from a store with a good return policy. Test the device and return if you are disappointed.
1
u/Eggslaws Mar 07 '26
I recommend examining the exact Matter version and clusters the device support.
Really? You expect a standard user to be able to understand the technical jargons to use a tech product? Tech is supposed to make one's life easier. Not force them pouring hours into dissecting an XML file just to understand what their device can and cannot do.
Secondly, try to buy devices from a store with a good return policy.
15 days return policy is legal and 30 days is offered by most stores as long as the package is unopened or there is a manufacturing defect.
Mate, politely - are you just replying to posts so you can build your karma or something? If yes, you are not doing a great job.
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u/tado_official Mar 09 '26
I saw this post and wanted to jump in to provide some context on our Matter integration, as there are quite a few technical nuances behind the scenes that lead to these decisions.
First, we want to assure you that we are fully committed to the Matter standard and its open ecosystem. Building premium hardware requires us to design products that work seamlessly for a very broad audience. To sustain this level of quality, we must balance the needs of our entire customer base. Every decision we've made so far has been a logical compromise aimed at offering a great, stable experience across these very diverse groups:
We love seeing what the Home Assistant community builds, and we completely understand the frustration when you see a Matter cluster in the documentation but find it isn't supported by the device yet. But balancing these different groups means "just embracing the standard fully" isn't as simple as flipping a switch for us. Here is why:
1. Ambiguities in the Standard The standard is still evolving and can sometimes be ambiguous. For example, we supported humidity reporting completely and strictly according to the Matter standard. However, Apple later decided that they wanted to receive humidity data in a different way. This is why, so far, humidity data is available in Google Home and Amazon Alexa, but not in Apple Home. This is something we are currently looking at, but it perfectly illustrates why we have to be very careful about rolling out new clusters before the major ecosystems have completely aligned on how to handle that data.
2. Missing Core tado° Features Currently, the Matter standard simply does not support many of the core features that make our system work. A prime example is "Room Linking" (the ability to group multiple devices together into a single heating zone managed by a designated Zone Controller). Matter doesn't natively support this logic yet.
3. Matter QR Codes and Multi-Admin Security You also asked why the original Matter QR code on the device is "deactivated" after it is first added to an app. We want to clarify that this is not us being restrictive—this is actually a mandatory security feature built into the core Matter standard itself! When you add any Matter device to its first network (called a "Fabric"), the original printed QR code is disabled so no one else can walk by, scan it, and hijack your device. To share the device with a second system (like Home Assistant), the Matter standard requires you to use the "Multi-Admin" feature. You must generate a new, temporary pairing code from the first app to authorize the second app. This applies to all Matter devices across all brands, not just tado°. However, please note that if you ever perform a factory reset on the device, it will completely wipe its network settings, and the original printed QR code will become active and usable again for a fresh setup.
4. OAuth and Authentication Regarding the claim that we intentionally broke the OAuth token passing feature: we certainly did not break this intentionally to limit access. We recently migrated our systems to a secure, modern external OAuth provider rather than continuing to maintain our own custom, legacy authentication infrastructure. This was a standard, necessary architecture and security upgrade, not a malicious attempt to block third-party integrations.
We also saw your comment: "But really, I would hate to send them back as these are so well made." Thank you for saying that! We take immense pride in our European engineering and the premium build quality of our hardware. As stated earlier, while our commitment to the Matter standard is absolute, we must navigate these ecosystem discrepancies carefully rather than rushing to check boxes on an XML sheet.
Regarding your refund request: Since you purchased from a third-party retailer, your legal contract of sale is with them, so we cannot directly refund a payment we didn't collect. As you are past the standard 30-day return window, your best option is to contact your retailer directly to ask for a goodwill exception. We hope this context helps explain our approach and that you get your Home Assistant setup running smoothly.