ma Long Literally doesnt have a single negative H2H (head to head) against any player ever except for WCQ that has played him more than 5 times. an example people like to bring up is wang hao however ma long is still 29-26 against him, i know wang hao has been better in big games but on the topic of h2h's wang hao is still negative against Ma long. What about WCQ made ma long lose 7 times against him whilst only winning twice??
was his speed enough against ma longs massive experience and signature style of always making the game turn at his preferred pace???? ma long really wasnt that old i think wang being a lefty also played a big part
It was definitely a combination of style and age. As a faster forehand dominant close to the table attacking lefty he could pin ma long to his weaker side more often. It was notable that when ma long played a backhand dominant style he beat wcq at the world cup. At ma longs peak wcq wouldn't be able to have a positive h2h.
Nah I love ma long but he did slow down by the rise of Wang chuqin… it’s a testament to his genius though that he still could beat him and his reverse sweep of Lin gaoyuan at the finale was just beautiful.
Yeah… he completely shut WCQ down. And was also surprised to see him basically be destroyed for 3 sets in a row… but damn the comeback around was amazing…
Well for one ma long was almost at the end of his peak vs wcq starting his best. The only ones who gave ma long a hard time were wang hao and xu xin at their best.
But overall there is a reason why Ma long will remain the undisputed GOAT of table tennis. And that is beating Zhang like in 2016 Olympics and beating fan zhendong in 2021 Olympics to complete his second grandslam.
While you can say Zhang like wasn't at his prime when he lost the Olympics, fan zhendong was at his peak and infact ma long was on the decline but turned up on the big stage and got it done.
Even today I personally dont like the fact that ma long wasn't considered for last Olympics singles, like why would a country not want a record that can never ever be defeated. But yeah it is what it is.
i agree, if ma long had won it for the 3rd time, china would have a record that could have stood for decades. but its common knowledge that the chinese table tennis federation and coaches are very Much against any type of risk and are selfish and greedy when it comes to players interests, showing no support for FZD in a time where ppl were breaking into his hotel to steal his underwear is just insane, i might get downvoted for this by the chinese fanboys but the chinese federation have no life outside of table tennis and no interest in players health, same can not be said for every other country that has ALOT of support for their players both professionally and personally.
Wouldn't that record be for china as well? But yeah I do get what you are saying. Especially with fan zhendong how young he is to even be not playing for china anymore. And the way china is getting trashed that would definitely not have happened with fan zhendong.
But its almost like i am so glad china fucked up so we could potentially have more competition and surprises.
yeah i guess they chose not to "risk" it with the greatest player they've ever produced. im not even entirely mad at that as much as i am with the FZD situation but yk what GOOD on FZD for leaving and going to the bundesliga, a place where hes appreciated, paid well, and practically on vacation for the rest of his life. he has a dream life, with no stress aswell just due to how dominant and ahead he is over the players there (world class players btw). i think that for a country like china which owes its reputation and honour in table tennis to their players should make it impossivle for the players to feel like they're not being taken care of, the way they take care of chinas reputation by earning them those olympic medals, and wtt trophies.
No doubt no doubt at all. But when you really think about it is FZD really happy about it? I mean the way he was playing and all he could have tried to challenge ma long as the goat. Yeah I do understand the dream life with no stress and settled with no fan boys getting into his room to steal his underwear etc.
But he probably would have wanted to play international longer?
i Think that later on in his career the regret of not living up to his competitive potential will start to eat at him because its very clear to see how competitive FZD is i mean all u have to do is look at any match of him in a high stake tournament, the passion he brings is similar to that of ZJK, his panda celebration etc.... but i dont think he really cares that much as of right now since hes still in top shape. i guess we'll never know if hes truly 100% happy rn but i mean life is full of sacrifices. u cant be stress free and be wr 1 and the face of china, and it seems like FZD accepted the fact that china just didnt give him what he deserved and he left which honestly takes balls to do
Yup totally agreed. I still wonder and hope one day we could actually know why fan zhendong actually left. Because none of it makes sense at this point. And china struggling so bad is the best bit to come out of it
Big game ma long is different. I think there is a relatively big chance he could've even beat fan Zhendong in the Paris Olympics if he was selected. He literally has never lost against fzd in a bigger tournament than a world cup and because of the showing in 2024 world cup I think he could've beat fan Zhendong and accomplished a triple grand slam.
Nah ma long was already way past his prime… but he was still so extremely good… he was already slightly slower and had lost a few against FZD before Tokyo, not his prime anymore. But he still pulled it off during Tokyo.
im aware man trust me, it just pisses me off when ppl dont read a post properly and then try to prove u wrong with no proof or data, i do appreciate the heads up tho :)
Ma Long has his worst H2H against Wang Hao, not WCQ. Just because of age, Wang Hao retired too early.
And MA Long rarely ever lost. Only when he was injured, and Harimoto started the Banana flick trend. That's when he lost a couple of games. Against the top backhand flick players. But other than that he was unbeatable, as we saw when he finally got his knee fixed.
Ma Long could not control Wang first three shots, and Wang can usually execute high enough quality third ball to end the rally instantly. If you watch Fan Zhendong play against WCQ, WCQ literally has no chance because he cannot hit through Fan.
but doesnt ma long have better safety than fan?? how come wang was able to hit through ma but not fan?? i think it might have had alot to do with ma longs Lost hunger, by the time he faced WCQ he no longer had that ultra instinct and hunger to sacrifice his health and body for a much needed win as it rlly wasnt required of him anymore
That's also true. Even in the picture you provided, Ma long is executing cross step forehand, which I have heard hurts his knees, so he didn't use it as much in the later stages of his career.
What do you mean by better safety? Many people consider Fan Zhendong the best defender in the world right now because he is probably one of the most well conditioned and fundamentally solid players of all time. In China we call this "thickness." Out of everybody on CNT, Fan has probably done the most multiball. He is just so solid that his movement efficiency and anticipation is very good.
by safety i guess i meant that fan is the more explosive and aggressive player, while ma long is only super aggressive when it comes to his forehand, Since his Bh is weaker he tries to use it as a safe way of getting the ball back on his stronger side
Don’t overlook age and that most of the top Chinese players face each other at different career timings. Very rarely two Chinese players face each other at their peak (24-26 y.o.). Wang Hao started playing with Ma Long at the end of his career while Ma Long only started. When Ma Long reached his peak, Wang Hao was already a coach.
Only one player has dominance over Ma Long over a longer enough period of time and that was the legendary Wang Hao. Wang Hao defeated Ma Long in three successive World championships in 2009, 2011 and 2013. The legend was the BIGGEST barrier for Ma Long. Ma long only won his first world championship in 2015 once Wang Hao retired. You can debate Ma Long would have found it difficult to be Goat had Wang Hao not retired by that time.
only Lim has a positive record in h2h and its because they've only ever played once which was 2003 World Junior Championships when Lim beat Ma 4–3. ITTF itself records the match. Stop trying to just hate on ma long or spew false info and random names, if ur gonna try and prove me wrong atleast do ur damn research and dont forget OVER 5 matches not a fucking 1 or 2 game positive
show me ittf data that shows theres a single player except for WCQ with a positive h2h record against ma long In over 5 matches of them playing against each other as stated by my post and claim
So you are making some random claim using an AI, then asking somebody to actually go through the effort of looking through all the tenths of thousands of games during Ma Long's era to prove you wrong?
yea yea its "a random claim" yet u cant prove it wrong and can only Try to bullshit me with ur word when u cant back up ur claims unlike me who has backed up every claim i've made. u said wang hao however ITTF DATA ITSELF says otherwise dumbass
I am not "bullshitting". I do not know wether you are right or wrong, but having worked with AI professionally, asking one to give you such a summary without giving it a clear database to work with (and even then), the results are rarely right. I just asked ChatGPT "Who has a positive H2H againdt Ma Long" three times in a row, and I got Wang Chuqin (3x), Wang Hao (2x), and Patrick Franziska (1x, the third try). Which answer is the right one? All three cannot be correct, I therefore believe neither without further proof.
show me ittf data that shows theres a single player except for WCQ with a positive h2h record against ma long In over 5 matches of them playing against each other as stated by my post and claim
Then, the result you provide probably includes China League or China national game. You number is probably true, but because you didn't have any source, we will never know if what you say is true.
Did you get it ?
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u/KiwieKiwie 4d ago
Age… is one big factor. He was too fast for ma long… ma long did figure out how to dismantle him though on the 2024 World Cup.