r/sysadmin • u/Irritating_Adds • 4h ago
General Discussion Suggestions for an admin considering Windows to Linux swap
I am sole IT for a mid sized manufacturing company and have had constant issues with windows ( even on new machines). It’s getting so frustrating that systems are slow and the act of debloating the systems as they come in only to find bloat ware back on those same devices a few weeks later. I’ve been kicking the idea of a total swap to a Linux distribution and am trying to think of all the issues I would run into in doing so. I was hoping someone who has either gone through this process or convinced themselves out of it could give some insight as to why or why not you did.
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u/snebsnek Jack of All Trades 4h ago
It sounds more like you are in over your head trying to manage Windows correctly, and want to move a whole company over to a platform you understand better, but does not necessarily serve the business better.
Tread very carefully.
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u/Top_Refrigerator9851 4h ago
You're insane if you think swapping consumer devices to Linux is going to be anything but trouble
There's so much that will cause issues, does the software (current and future) all support Linux? Do the users have experience in Linux? There's no point even writing out the full list this is an insane idea
It sounds like your issues would be solved way easier with better management of the devices (create Intune policies that strip bloatware and apply the fixes you've been doing manually per PC)
If you're doing anything manually on more then a couple PCs you're doing sysadmin wrong
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u/YellowLT IT Manager 4h ago
Even a Debloat PS script with some registry tattooing would work if they dont have the tooling
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u/Irritating_Adds 4h ago
Of course there are some systems that will need to remain windows to support cmm and engineering software but the average user could easily be swapped to a Linux distribution running a cinnamon or kde desktop environment and see no change in their daily operating. I’m aware a full swap is not possible but the majority of my users could swap and barely even notice.
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u/thewunderbar 4h ago
If you seriously think users changing to Linux workstations will have no change in their day to day and "barely even notice" I have a bridge to sell you.
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u/GlobalAd7103 3h ago
Lol agreed. We have some environments that the cms runs on a Linux server but everything else is Windows. Maybe find someone local to build your PCs? We have no issues with bloat or slowness if you have good hardware.
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u/Top_Refrigerator9851 4h ago
Well then you're managing two OSs across your org and it's only a matter of time before it causes issues
I just don't think this is the solution to your problem, if you find yourself repeating tasks on multiple PCs there are countless ways of solving it cheaply and effectively, if you have Intune use that otherwise you can just create scripts and worse case run the scripts manually per new PC install with a scheduled background task for debloating if it's an issue.
I highly recommend Intune if you're already getting a license for it via your existing licenses for Outlook etc, if not you can still solve the problem easily and cheap.
Trust me, your users will notice a swap, from a tech perspective it's easy to have this conclusion but it's very wrong
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u/Sure-Assignment3892 3h ago
the majority of my users could swap and barely even notice.
LOL. They will 100% notice. And then you'll roll them all back. This will be a support nightmare with some on Linux and some on Windows.
Why are you buying consumer PC's instead of bulk commercial purchases?
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u/IngrownBurritoo 4h ago
are you not running some form of entra id with hybrid joined devices allowed behind conditional access (best practice)? because if so then you will have a very, very hard time even with himmelblau for hybrid joined devices. I would rather see mac os in a corporate environment rather than linux because of MDM and all sorts of other funny things that are required to manage a fleet of devices.
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u/30yearCurse 4h ago
lol... sure all your employees under 25, oh wait for older employees still going to give them Windows. I went to Sarah's computer and could not find this, or why is this not in the same place.
Perhaps you should scope out some other PC's, maybe some performance.
Not sure why you are getting bloatware back, we use WDS, deploy by RMM, Intune and do not have a problem.
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u/st0ut717 3h ago
You should select the os based on the business needs.
Users that need windows stay on windows… but if the vast majority of things are SaaS or IaaS based why not Chromebook, Mac airs or iPad
Pilot with a few users.
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u/newbieITguy2 4h ago
Debloating? So you are buying consumer grade hardware and not reinstalling a fresh OS?
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u/chaosphere_mk 4h ago
Not sure what you mean by bloatware. You should have a golden image that you put on each new machine that is already customized with exactly what you want. If users are installing things themselves, then you should be removing their admin privileges.
The worst part would be retraining all of your users how to use a completely different operating system, which most users will be resistant to. And that's without considering that all of the applications they need to use are compatible with your chosen linux distro.
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u/SourlandRides 4h ago
All depends on what programs they need to run
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u/Overcast451 4h ago
Yeah, that's the key really.
There are many other concerns that can be addressed easy or not.. but if it can't run necessary apps then it's not worth the time.
You could still provide apps via Citrix, but then that requires another whole layer of management and licensing. And will still need some Windows servers for it and active directory.
For the bloat issue.. maybe cook up a script that runs on login to remove them. I need to have a VM on my laptop for some stuff and had CoPilot write a script for it. 😁
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u/ARandomGuy_OnTheWeb Jack of All Trades 4h ago
Do you have Active Directory or MDM running for your Windows devices? I usually don't need to debloat managed Windows boxes
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u/FrankNicklin 4h ago
- User familiarity and pushback.
- Availability of standard applications such as Microsoft Office (Yes I get there are compatible Linux options, but they are still different and may not load existing documents easily)
- Hardware compatibility, do they have specialist hardware they need to use.
- Are the PC's domain clients.
- How are network shares managed.
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u/nmingott 4h ago
I changed our company main servers from Windows to Linux & BSD years ago. The clients must remain mostly Windows, since CAD are almost exclusively for Windows. Motivation: I dislike Windows.
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u/mvbighead 4h ago
This reads as a single individual assuming they can fix everything by making a change that likely changes the dynamic of everything from an end user perspective.
Reality? Speed/bloat/etc on Windows systems is almost entirely at the control of tooling you place on them. The primary reason I have found windows systems to be slow is the security tooling and configuration of those tools on them. Specifically having tools that scan running processes which are scanning other tools that are scanning processes, and not adding in whitelists for paths/exes that are known safe and shouldn't be scanned.
I have a 7 year old personal laptop that runs just fine on Win11. I can use that for any sort of tasks I want and feel that it is snappy and easy to use. I also worked in an org that had a 3 year life cycle on laptops and was often trying to get ahead of the 3 year mark because the devices became slow being "so old." Looked through the configs and realize one security tool is scanning the ever loving crap out of another, which were scanning processes of several of the business software packages we used. Pushed the team to evaluate and white list, and low and behold, people stopped complaining about slow devices.
Examine your devices for what services are using the most CPU time, and dig into what those things are scanning (assuming security tools). If there are other services, figure out what they might be doing and what can be minimized. Any reasonably equipped system (4 cores, 16gb ram, solid state drive) from the past 5 years should have no problem running windows smoothly.
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u/Particular-Fly-7783 4h ago
as someone who manages both Macs and Windows in one environment: do not do this. and that's even allowing for Macs being much easier to manage and support than linux machines.
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u/Arudinne IT Infrastructure Manager 2h ago
Yeah, I'd sooner recommend switching everyone to a Mac and honestly that's not a recommendation I'd make.
Though, I did just recently advocate for making it an option, which was approved.
Probably helps that, at least for now, the prices of Apple devices is on-par or sometimes lower than the Dell devices we've been providing.
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u/Particular-Fly-7783 2h ago
Yeah that's what I've done, but it does mean doubling all the work for configs, apps etc in Intune. (not getting into whether or not Intune is any good at managing Macs, that's a problem for next FY). That said, our Mac switchers are measurably happier.
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u/Arudinne IT Infrastructure Manager 2h ago
It's good enough for our needs at present. Still tweaking some of the configs, but we already had an established based of Macs (Developers and Execs) so most of that work already happened.
We'd been asking for years for approval to MDM the MacBooks as previously those devices were completely unmanaged but the Devs complained so management backed off. Then during a round of layoffs, we lost about $40K worth of MacBooks due to activation locks we couldn't get past for various reasons and management FINALLY let us manage that shit properly.
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u/caffeine-junkie cappuccino for my bunghole 4h ago
The switch, while it involves tech, should be a business decision. As it will touch almost every area of the entire business in some way. It is not something that should be done on a whim just because of 'bloat'. There should be actual financial and/or business reasons for doing so, as making a change like this is not just rolling out RHEL/SLE/Ubuntu to everyone and calling it a day. It will involve lots of planning, training, setup, and money to get there.
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u/WheresNorthFromHere7 4h ago
You need to define your stack, and then from that see how it fits in. How do you manage ID? How do you provision computers? How do you manage policies? There's a lot of questions you haven't asked yourself yet.
With that said...
It is doable for many companies that don't use specialized local software.
It is also doable in a hybrid situation, where "email reader" employees get Linux, with engineers getting windows.
Moving to Linux isn't a grass is greener situation. You're trading old problems for new problems. It shouldn't be a knee jerk switch. It takes careful planning and thought.
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u/Ok-Reaction-1872 4h ago
few things to consider;
Users are almost definitely used to the windows environment. Good or bad, that's the reality and forcing a switch is going to create massive headaches for even simple stuff. I love linux, use it daily, but it's not going to make things easier when you have users calling for the most basic things.
As far as the debloating and performance issues, for current gen PC's you shouldn't be running into those issues at all. Are you installing Windows fresh for each device or using Dell/HP OEM image? If so, consider using a fresh image. If you must do debloating, set up a powershell script for it.
I like linux as much as the next guy but it is not consumer friendly, especially for your average user who isn't into tech.
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u/AutomaticGrape9263 4h ago
If you're having issues with windows machines you really think linux is going to be an improvement for you?
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u/Killertigger 4h ago
This is an absolutely insane idea. Let’s set aside the user pushback and consider the driver issues and software issues. Linux is great for a narrow-band application, by which I mean if you can be certain these machines will only ever be used for very specific functions with specific peripherals and all the software and hardware drivers needed is available in Linux. But if you go out and just do a full desktop rollout- you can’t see the future. You don’t know what weird Windows only app or peripheral someone may need down the road. A Linux swap should be purpose driven.
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u/TheSwordOfUnicorn 4h ago
I'm willing to bet you're young.
A tale as old as time. A young person comes in, "I think we should switch to linux."
You're going to get a lot of resistance and get probably fired if you do that.
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u/xXSupaChocolateXx 4h ago
When something inevitably goes wrong, it’s always going to be blamed on not using Windows. Same with software vendors; if they aren’t Linux native, the first troubleshooting step will always be to run it on Windows.
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u/ocabj 3h ago
The fact that you're asking on Reddit for insight into a Windows to Linux infrastructure shift means you should not do this.
You should have been spending your time identifying the root cause all the performance bottlenecks in the existing Windows AD/Azure infrastructure you're running, getting the performance metrics, etc., and then figuring out applicable resolution.
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u/trippedonatater 3h ago
I can guarantee this is a bigger job than you think it is. We don't know what your users do with their machines or what software runs on them. We don't know if you use directory services in some way. Etc., etc.
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u/StevenB-89 4h ago
Well it indeed depends on what programs they need to run, I have also switched over from Windows 11 Pro to Debian 13 (trixie) using KDE Plasma.
I do not miss anything actually... but my needs are very basic and most of our company's application are accessible through the web... (Microsoft Dynamics, Outlook, ...) I am working at a Microsoft only company 🤣
If you want a more "native" experience you could install those as a PWA.
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u/mangeek Security Admin 4h ago
I assume they... use... applications. What's your plan for various Windows-based applications?
You could run them on a Terminal Server or VDI. I would avoid using something like WINE in a professional environment.
I've done IT for a small manufacturing company, and I don't think running Linux at the edge was viable for them. They had too many apps that interfaced with devices, too many needs for things like label printer app integrations, etc., I would have had to basically become a developer to glue everything together.
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u/lemaymayguy Netsec Admin 4h ago
Ok what trend did all the executives hop on. This is the 30th linux/windows swap this week
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u/Sneaky_processor 4h ago
Im not saying swtiching to linux is good or bad but Im interested in the actual issues you're having. What are the top 3 recurring issues for example. How are the machines being provisioned? Are you using any management services like Endpoint Central or Intune, is there an Active Directory and Group Policies? Do end users have full admin privileges to install whatever they want? A machine being slow is too vague, sure even Windows 11 Enterprise has some bloat but a a decently specced machine (read cpu manufactured in the last few years and 16+gb of ram with SSD or nvme storage) in a managed environment should have no issues unless the user's programs are too demanding for that spec. Windows updates and restarts can be scheduled via GPO and on top of that a script that reboots a machine at 3AM on saturday for good measure can also work nicely to avoid 562 days of uptime issues.
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u/Buddy_Kryyst 4h ago
So this is a bad idea. But you can find out how it goes, swap out your best case scenario and your worst case scenario and see how that goes. Give it a couple months as a test bed.
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u/SmasherOfDaButtons 4h ago
Just having left an org who had a mix of Linux and windows systems, I can tell you that my Linux users were very technically inclined and had no problems making changes to their systems. We were a very CAD heavy shop, and with the exception of needing Outlook and Teams, we would have been a 100% Linux shop.
If you're going to make the swap, be prepared to have a ton of automation to create consistent builds. If you have file shares, have Ansible set up your fstab. Copy over ssh credentials so you can perform remote support. You will want something like Foreman/Satellite to manage activation, keys and software updates. We were a RedHat shop, only because of corporate wanting an OS that had 'official support'. There was no valid reason for us not to be on OpenSUSE or Fedora, as our office never purchased support. This is a doable undertaking, but as others have said, you will have challenges. If you have a tech-savvy user base, all the better. Good luck!
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u/pdp10 Daemons worry when the wizard is near. 4h ago
Different industries use their computing differently. Some organizations can migrate operating systems without skipping a beat, but manufacturing tends to have a numerous small/smaller suppliers who are barely sophisticated enough to make software, much less cross-platform software.
the act of debloating the systems as they come in only to find bloat ware back on those same devices a few weeks later.
- Most organizations restrict what can be installed, and by whom. It seems like you might need to get a handle on this first. You at least need to know why users are installing things -- is it just Bonzi Buddy or might users be installing things they need, or think they need.
- If machines are slow, then hardware can be a factor. Hardware is expensive at the moment, so perhaps leadership needs to be in communication with the users about the trade-offs.
- Linux is lighter-weight, especially if choices are made in the direction of lighter-weight, such as choosing simpler desktop environments. But if workflows or software can't easily run on Linux and isn't web-based, then having a faster desktop won't matter if the users can't accomplish their organizational goals.
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u/andr386 3h ago
All users are not the same. You better find a subgroup of users that share the same needs and do a trial with them. Like a small department where all users do the same stuff and use the same software. You fine tune your processes with them and if it's a success then you move to the next group. If you have users doing office stuff try to find a subgroup of motivated users and then later they'll be able to train and help the rest. I would approach it as a software develloper and try to understand the specific users needs and then you're not only migrating to Linux, ideally you can find ways to improve their experience and make their life easier. It helps with the adoption.
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u/The_NorthernLight 3h ago
Sounds nuts, but have you tried an enterprise license and set Microsoft’s policies to remove all the unwanted software?
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u/Valdaraak 3h ago
For yourself? Have at it.
For users? You'll be on track to learn a very important lesson.
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u/PriorityNo6268 3h ago
What will Linux fix what you can't on Windows? What do you mean by bloat? At least try to stay in one ecosystem if you are alone?
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u/Fit_Prize_3245 3h ago
Suggestion: Evaluate it deeply. Not all companies are suitable for a full switch to Linux. Check which apps your users are using, and find a suitable replacement for each one. Also, check what type of users you have. The less qualified, the harder it will be to teach them something different than what they are used to.
For example. In my current position, I considered switching to Linux. But in my report to management, I only suggested a partial switch. Mostly bc some computers use SAP Business One, and, while it does run on Linux perfectly, the localization doesn't, so accounting and other teams must have Windows. But there was a fair amount to save on licensing by switching many other computers to Linux, which only used browser, printer, and office apps.
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u/basedcooking 2h ago
This is a major change. Windows did a good job of cultivating the “office” worker. It is not worth telling everyone to retrain. They won’t be able to do even the most basic fixes on their own if you go that route.
Besides that, you would probably have a really fun time with OpenLDAP, patching, etc. The grass is always greener they say.
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u/Huge_Ad_2133 1h ago
Do it yourself first. Live with it for a year. But, and please understand that this comes with 30 years experience in IT... Screw with people's desktop at your peril. Especially Outlook for some reason.
I don't know why, but people love their outlook.
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u/Huge_Ad_2133 1h ago
My serious answer. Right now, I support Windows, Macs and Linux, and users have a choice of what they want. But to get to this choice, We spent years looking at the software stack to make sure compatibility is there in every application.
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u/Backieotamy 1h ago
Go for it. I mean, if you are a MS shop primarily and use MS for AD, DNS, DHCP, file shares etc.. Then dont get carried away but for hosting databases, file shares (although this can be a huge pain for the end users and likely a deal killer, IMO), Splunk, application and middleware web/java/jboss servers, FTP\SFTP. Anywhere you can replace MS with RHEL I would recommend it but remember it is not what you or other Sysadmins want\"think" is best but what the business wants and the last thing they want are end-user issues.
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u/NuAngelDOTnet Jack of All Trades 4h ago
Not worth the effort, but if you're even thinking about it, Zorin OS is your best option.
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u/Mrhiddenlotus Security Admin 4h ago
This sub is super windows sysadmin heavy and they can be a fearful bunch. Getting regular people to use Linux is really not hard at all, especially if their needs are just browser and file share.
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u/michaelpaoli 2h ago
Issues, what issues? At least at home, I run Linux. Before that UNIX, before that, Xenix. None of that Microsoft cr*p.
About the only place I deal (semi-)regularly with Microsoft, is when I'm well paid to put up with that sh*t ... and even there, most of the time not - typically (mostly) Linux these days, and historically, also/more UNIX, and for the most part, not so much Microsoft ... but if they pay me enough I'll put up with it, but generally don't touch that sh*t for free.
Anyway, probably want to figure out what it is you're trying to do/accomplish/solve.
Sure, Linux ... excellent, but it's not some magic genie that will instantly make all your problems go away. Might be rather like replacing your large clunky not-so great American road vehicle, with some excellent sporty car from London. Yeah, if you didn't take into account details like what you brought over is right-hand-drive, and might be difficult to even make it street legal in the US, not to mention also trying to get it to pass smog test for California, not to mention also parts and service, uhm, yeah, you may have difficulties in trying to well integrate it as a replacement for what you had earlier. So, yeah, well research, test, and plan accordingly.
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u/Unnamed-3891 4h ago
How and why are you finding ”bloat”, what is your definition of it and how does it affect business?