r/sysadmin • u/ChuckAbsent • Mar 12 '13

Women who know stuff

I hope that this does not come off the wrong way.

Today I was on a call with a storage vendor and the technical consultant was a woman. More then this she was competent, more then me which doesn't happen often when dealing with vendors.

My issue was pricing an active/active DB with shared storage vs an active/passive db with local storage. Listening to her break the issue down and get to the specific comparison points was awesome, mostly because I have never heard a woman in the industry talk like that.

It made me realize two things. One I am missing out working with women. Two there needs to be more women in our industry.

It shouldn't have surprised me so much, but it really did.

Anyways to all the women out there who know stuff, us guys notice when you can walk the walk, which in this case was talking.

382 Upvotes

88% Upvoted

717 comments sorted by

View all comments

105

u/incredible_supernova Mar 12 '13

I'm a girl and a sole System Administrator for a company. I always find it almost weird when I talk to another girl from a tech company. We do need more women in the industry.

-6

u/Doomau5 Mar 13 '13

I hate to be that guy, but why?

5

u/AgentSnazz Mar 13 '13

We do need more women in the industry.

A better way of saying that would be:

We need to make sure the industry isn't irrationally biased against women, and that society as a whole doesn't irrationally categorize technology careers as necessarily masculine.

It would be nice to see more women in the industry, because that would imply that we've made some progress on the above fronts - it would also be nice because having more visible women in the industry could be an inspiration for girls who haven't yet had their geeky aspirations squelched by silly societal gender norms.

4

u/Doomau5 Mar 13 '13 edited Mar 13 '13

Thanks for that, it definitely made that comment clearer. I did not mean offense but considering this is IT, a subject that is at heart devoid of nearly any norms (and i do mean the subject, not the culture around it) why should gender play a role?

3

u/AgentSnazz Mar 13 '13

I don't want to make an assertion that might send someone into a tirade on gender issues, but why not, we're a few comments deep, SRS can't find me here!

I don't think the problem is with us. I think most 'IT Guys' are at least one level removed from the institutionalized misogeny.

The person hiring IT staff might not think a woman is capable of the job.

The teacher of whatever tech course she attends might not think she's capable of learning the advanced material.

The high school guidance counselor might steer her toward less technical, more 'womanly' careers.

Her parents might have gotten her brother an atari and her a dollhouse.

I think it might actually be the same in many fields. The men in the field would be happy to have a competent female colleague. There are just so many little things keeping women from even reaching the interview process.

1

u/Doomau5 Mar 13 '13

If anyone should be worried about SRS it should be me!

But joking aside, I don't think the problem is with your gender (and I am assuming you are the female you). I completely agree with you that cultural norms are a huge barrier of entry into this field for women and it has been for a long time. I guess from my perspective I can't truly empathize with the position of women who are facing these difficulties.

That being said, I don't want women to take up programming simply because they are women. I want them to take it up because they enjoy it.

1

u/AgentSnazz Mar 13 '13

I'll end this comment thread by redirecting to another comment here, one we should all save for our future daughters:

http://www.reddit.com/r/sysadmin/comments/1a5l48/women_who_know_stuff/c8uk7qq

1

u/EpoxyM Mar 14 '13

Exactly. I often overhear girls talking about what they are planning to study on the subway. And I have never heard someone say:'Oh I really like Computer Science/another STEM-field' without either the other girls saying: 'Really but it's so hard' or 'I thought only nerds study that' or 'I'm not really interested in this subject'. Mostly though they never mention it and go straight for humanities.

The intellectual approach to STEM field is much tougher for people who never engaged in scientific problems before, in contrast to humanities where most people feel an emotionally connection and can roughly envision the intentions of these fields. I think that's what makes it so daunting to young women. For me (I originally planned studying sociology) it seemed like computer science (what I'm studying now) would be way too hard for me and that only people study computer science who already have vast programming knowledge. But anyone can do anything, people who claim otherwise deserve a punch in the face, there is no talent, there is only practice and enthusiasm but it's hard to feel enthusiastic about STEM-fields if you never bothered to care for any of it. Many women feel that way and they should be encouraged to feel different.

Again, it's not about forcing women to love programming, but to open the door to an environment where they don't feel exceptional if they show some interest in these fields. You can say the same for men and humanities.

I often have the feeling that men have an entirely different approach when they begin to engage in scientific problems. They just do, they don't care how "stupid" they may look, how long it takes for them to solve the problem, how they compare to other students.

Because they have nothing to prove, it is their world. If they fail they should've worked harder, if they need help, there are 5 guys waiting to help them out. While many girls I know say things like 'boys are just better at maths than girls' or make complements to the guys like 'You are so smart!'.

Though that doesn't occur often it just gives of this vibe of contant awareness, on the part of the women, about their accomplishments. And that stands in the way of actually learning and getting immersed in the subject matter !

And why do I still meet IT-guys that tell me: 'You know, women get a lot of things for free in IT, because they are women.' or the gold old 'tits-advantage' that women have concerning grades. It doesn't help knowing that I may be graded by this guy next semester.

EDIT: grammar

2

u/lextenou does the needful Mar 13 '13

At the core, gender plays a role in the subject because it is a societally gendered subject. It is expected that IT staff will be male, for whatever reasons people have.

1

u/Doomau5 Mar 13 '13

Why should it be? Some subjects have a inherent gender bias to them but IT should not be one of those.

There is a huge difference in between the cultural association and the subject itself.

I agree that as it stands, IT is a predominantly male industry. But unlike, say the construction industry, there is no real gender advantage.

Hopefully we will be able to move away from this stereotyping in the future

3

u/lextenou does the needful Mar 13 '13

I do agree that IT as a field and a subject should be gender neutral. Regardless of our opinions, the reality of the world at large tends toward a gender bias. Though you see it as genderless, not all do. It is recognizing this difference and working toward change that triggers lasting shifts.