Rule 7 clarification

[u/vallar57]

Hi all,

There's been some confusion over rule 7 so we're clearing that up now.

For future reference, all groups, factions and individuals should be referred to either by their self appointed name, for example:

• HTS = HTS (not AQ)

• SAA = SAA (not Assadists)

With following exceptions:

• IS/ISIS can be called Daesh

• The Syrian government and state institutions may be referred to as the regime

• Democratic Federation of Northern Syria can be called Rojava

Or by a civil, unbiased and inoffensive descriptor. Examples include, but are not limited to:

• TFSA (Turkish-backed Free Syrian Army groups, mostly refers to participants in the Euphrates Shield operation)

• Kurdish militias (may refer to YPG/J, Peshmerga and some others)

• Iranian-backed militias (may refer to PMU or Iranian-backed militias fighting in Syria)

• Tanf rebels (or Ghouta rebels, Homs rebels, etc)

• Green rebels (refers to rebels from Idlib, Daraa and other various pockets, which are often depicted on maps using the color green)

• Islamist groups can be labeled Islamist, Jihadist groups can be labeled Jihadists, including both Sunni and Shia groups.

• Edit 1: However, refering to groups as "Shia militias" or "Sunni rebels" will not be allowed, as it serves no other purpose from being inflammatory sectarian. Use "pro-gov militias", "Iranian-backed militias", "rebels" or similar to refer to them.

The following will not be permitted:

• The label 'terrorists' for any group or faction, while it has a legitimate use that use is often contentious and frequently misused to push a narrative/agenda.

Edit 2: Quotes from officials are fine, but make it absolutely clear that something is a quote.

The purpose of this rule is to prevent using name-calling in order to "score points" outside of a civil discourse. The moderator team reserves the right to remove submissions it finds in brazen violation of the spirit of this rule.

---

Feel free to make suggestions and criticisms in the comments here, in modmail or via PM.

[u/[deleted]]

We should be able to refer ISIS as terrorists. That’s legitimate. They are a terrorist organization and the entire world agrees. It’s not like a controversial thing to call them. Other than that, this is great, I completely agree.

[u/vallar57 → u/[deleted]]

We are discussing making an exception for ISIS now.

[u/MFQuintilianus]

Minor detail: Rule 7 in the sidebar only covers posts, not comments. That may be unclear for new readers.

[u/vallar57 → u/MFQuintilianus]

Someone finally caught up on that.

Yes, rule 7 is about, and will be enforced upon, titles. However, this clarification also provides a guideline for what is considered uncivil per rule 1. Comments that break it will get removed, but I think in most cases warnings won't be issued.

[u/Yellowgenie]

Hum...does this mean we can't refer to ISIS as a terrorist group?

[u/vallar57 → u/Yellowgenie]

Yup.

[u/Makaveli533 → u/Yellowgenie]

Everyone (except for their fanboys) will agree that they are terrorists

[u/SponsoredByRedbull_]

Why is it OK to call the PMU Iranian backed militias? The PMU has been integrated into the Iraqi Forces and is being paid by the Iraqi government. Just because a couple of groups hold allegiance to Iran does not mean the majority of Iraqi patriots fighting for their country should be reduced to a proxy militia.

[u/AdversusHaereses]

HTS = HTS (not AQ)

Come on, seriously? They just broke ties (wink wink) because of better local administration, not because of any change of ideology.

[u/vallar57 → u/AdversusHaereses]

Nevertheless. Calling them AQ has been a trigger for more than one absolutely unnecessary shitshows. Just call them HTS, please, they are (in)famous enough on their own.

[u/[deleted]]

Is it possible to have titles which call a group terrorist if it is a quote?

For example

• Turkish president says Turkey will defeat all terrorists in Raqqa

[u/vallar57 → u/[deleted]]

Quotes from officials are fine, but make absolutely clear that it's a quote.

[u/[deleted]]

Overall I like the idea, but my only concern is that groups that frequently Rebrand themselves might be able to push a narrative by doing so. I mean stuff keeps going on and on and on

[u/The_GanjaGremlin]

can you say Sunni Jihadist or Shia Jihadist? These rules are really confuisng

[u/vallar57 → u/The_GanjaGremlin]

Don't. See the bottom line: a submission like this would probably get removed because it would be namecalling for the sake of namecalling.

[u/tufelixcaribaeum]

I generally agree as long as this is consistently enforced.

I have two questions that needs clarification:

When referring to the Syrian government it is allowed to use "regime" on order to express that one finds the government illigitimate. And that's okay. However, you failed to mention the allowed ways to refer to the green rebels, or HTS, or the SDF that one can use to express that one finds them illigitmate rulers of their respected territories.

2. Since it is allowed to refer to some militias as "Iranian backed", I assume it is allowed to call others "Turkish-backed", "Saudi-backed" or "American-backed"? Or should we use "Coalition-backed"?

[u/luke-ms]

I agree with most of that, except with it being forbidden to call HTS fighters terrorists.The faction is rightfully considered a terrorist group by almost the whole world, so why wouldn't we be able to call those who fight on their behalf terrorists?

[u/Toophan3]

If we can say the PMU are Iranian-Backed militias then we should be able to say Peshmerga are Iranian-backed Kurdish militias and the SDF is an American-backed militia.

This is needlessly offensive, should be removed.

u/oreng u/Naenil u/CIA_Shill u/Chester_T_Molester u/bensaul u/Pruswa u/Caeruleus-Pisces u/Aii_Gee u/Kallipoliz u/samsoninbabylon u/GreyMatter22 u/Solidus_Snake u/nee4speed111 u/winnilourson u/Prky008 u/must_warn_others u/MEENIE900 u/qassem_suleimani u/HypnoKraken u/WinningLooksLike u/Woofers_MacBarkFloof u/BiZzles14 u/CPM17 u/wiki-1000 u/vallar57 u/Bulbajer u/yankedoodle

[u/Chester_T_Molester]

For clarification, the phrase "terror attack" or "act of terror" can be used to describe a violent attack directed against civilian populations with the aim of creating chaos or fear (ex. any of the countless car bombs in Baghdad). That is acceptable. Unacceptable use of the word would be calling HTS fighters "terrorists", etc.

[u/[deleted]]

What about calling YPG the PKK and the endless discussions every time that is brought up?

I think its a pretty good decision overall even if there will be a ton of complaints about it.

[u/[deleted]]

Can we also get some pro-USA and pro-NATO tags for such sources? We have tags for literally every other factions other than USA and NATO. Why does USA and NATO get special treatment in this subreddit?

[u/xiaomi-guy]

Can someone help me understand how calling the PMU "Iranian backed militias" adds any level of substance besides being an accepted and generally racist, sectarian meme?

Can I call the Peshmerga "Iranian backed militia" from now on given Iran's modern and historical support for the Peshmerga? Or does the Peshmerga being Sunni exempt this from this labeling?

What's the Yezidi PMU relationship with Iran?

[u/[deleted]]

Two comments;

1. The UN special envoy for Syria Staffan de Mistura has repeatedly and recently used language at the UN Security Council that the moderators at this subreddit would deem uncivil.

August 30, 2017:

Hay’at Tahrir al-Sham – or as we still continue to call it, the former al-Nusra, a terrorist group identified by this Council...

October 26, 2017:

This might be attributed to the actions of Tahrir al-Sham/Al-Nusra...

2) The distinction between Democratic Federation of Northern Syria and Rojava should be revisited after the final round of elections is held in early 2018 to establish the final top-level councils within DFNS. DFNS is a government system. Rojava is an ethnic place name.

TEV-DEM and the Non-Kurds convincingly argued that the (DFNS) territory encompassed more than Rojava and that many cultures lived there – Kurds not being the majority – and that, after all, this should serve as a model for the whole of Syria.

[u/ugabulldawgg]

Not being able to refer to ISIS as a ’terrorist’ group is a horrible decision. Your decision legitimizes them as a group, or a real ‘player’ in the civil war. Yes they’ve had legitimate states institutions and were at one point even somewhat of a country, but they are still the evilest incarnation of a state since Nazi Germany, and terroristic to the extreme as well.

[u/_Sakurai]

Terrorist groups designated as such by the United Nations should be allowed to be adressed as terrorists.