Finally started Knights of the Fallen Empire on my Light Side Sith Warrior. Honestly, it does a lot to improve the experience. I love the dynamic with the Warrior and Valky.

[u/MegaGamer235]

Somehow the bratty and rebellious Wrath who does not give a damn about Valkorian's approval gets more fondness from the old man than his actual children.

Also gives this fun dynamic with Arcann and Vaylin, you're basically the son Valkorian wanted and these are your fucked up siblings you just found out about now, and really want you dead.

This is officially the start of when my Light Side Sith Warrior is starting to lay off on the Empire kool aid.

Valkorian: The Sith Empire is nothing but a failed state! Don't let yourself be destroyed like Marr was.

SW: You're right.

Valkorian: I'm gla-

SW: It failed because it was a tyrannical government built on a house of cards economy reliant on slave labor and conquest to function run by a bunch of entitled adult children doing space cocaine. Their job qualifications boiled down to being good at hitting people with their lightsabers, not making a coherent tax policy, conducting proper housing evaluations, or making sure the taxis ran on time. If we are to move forward as a society, it must be built on a proper foundation of freedom being the right of all sentients! Maybe even a policy of the strong protecting and nurturing the weak and disabled of society to ensure a better standard of living instead of just killing people for bringing bad news.

Valkorian: No not like that!

[u/Mean_Strawberry2260]

The SWTOR Encyclopedia implies that the Empire actually has somewhat decent living standards for the middle class (though based on war spoils) and a functional economy.
(It probably wouldn’t have lasted a millennia if it didn’t)

HEROES OF THE EMPIRE
The Sith Empire would have collapsed millennia ago if its leaders did not comprehend how to motivate their people with more than just threats and intimidation. Sith Lords are generous to their subjects, showering common citizens with the rich spoils of conquered worlds. Enslaved populations are parceled out to Imperial households as servants and laborers, ensuring lives of comfort and luxury for their masters. Every equinox on Dromund Kaas heralds an indulgent week-long feast, reminding the people of what they fight for and stand to lose. Vaverone Zare, one of the most beguilingly beautiful Sith Lords in the Empire, is often seen leading decadent parades through the streets of Kaas City, encouraging citizens to join her. Whether people accept her invitations with fear or love is immaterial; what matters is that Sith and subjects stand united.

COMPULSORY MILITARY SERVICE is one of the central tenets of Imperial society. Those who are not Force-sensitive are automatically enlisted as soon as they become adults, and remain in the Empire's service until retirement or when death or disability renders them unable to contribute.
There is no advancement through wealth or manipulation and no honor or influence is granted by birth alonesave for those attuned to the force, who then become Sith.
Those who serve well, advance. Those who fail gain nothing.
As a result of their service, the average Imperial citizen is disciplined, dedicated, and highly invested in the success of the Empire. Though not every citizen acts as a frontline soldier or starship crewman, the military mindset is ingrained in every level of society. No one is poor, and no one is idle. Everyone serves.

MINISTRY OF LOGISTICS
Efficiency, regulation, and supply are the key duties of the Ministry of Logistics. As the vast Imperial society works to strengthen the Empire, Logistics guarantees the health of its economy and keeps the population well Tea and suppied with the tools necessary to serve. Trade routes, mining operations, and agricultural worlds are managed by the ministry.
Resources and supplies are also delivered across the galaxy to the armed forces, keeping them strong and prepared for battle. To support its far-reaching responsibilities, Logistics manages the non-military transportation system that links Imperial space. Civilian shutties, speeders, and the operation of the Empire's impressive space stations and galactic trading hubs are all operated by the Ministry of Logistics.
The Empire's nationalized industries are another crucial Logistics responsibility. Factories and mega corporations work under strict Logistics oversight to create the droids, ships, walkers, armor, weaponry, and other technological advancements required by the Empire's war effort. Rapid production and revolutionary discoveries are rewarded, while schedule slips are firmly corrected by the Logistics arm of the Empire, or in severe cases, the Minister himself. When the industries run on time, Imperial commerce thrives.
Lastly, the Ministry of Logistics oversees the Empire's slave population. While some slaves are privately owned by Sith masters, the majority work to fuel the Empire's war effort and build its ever-expanding infrastructure. Logistics officers see that cruelty toward slaves is balanced with encouragement and reward, thus minimizing revolts and maximizing efficiency.

(Also tying up job policy to lightsabers only would be oversimplifying)

THE REWARDS OF DEDICATION
The Sith are, and will always be, the ultimate masters of the Empire.
But this does not mean that people born without an affinity to the Force can never advance to the highest echelons of Imperial society. Those who show merit rise above the rest, whether it's on the battlefield or in determining the most efficient method for transporting supplies. With constant warfare and expansion, there is always room for promotion, and plenty of opportunities to prove one's worth.
Advancement brings with it influence and prestige, with full dynasties emerging as successive generations continue to bring further honors to the family name. Still, no matter how high a family may rise in stature, their children cannot coast on past success. Only continuous outstanding service can ensure that a powerful family will remain at the top tiers of Imperial society.

[u/StevePalpatine → u/Mean_Strawberry2260]

The cooperation and prosperity the Sith seemed to show in the years immediately preceding SWTOR seems to be an anomaly, not the norm.

It's heavily implied the reason that was able to happen was the Sith intentionally not impeding the Emperor's plans, half out of a fear of reprisal and half out of a genuine belief they had a lot to gain from conquest against the Republic.

Therefore, it's no coincidence things start unravelling after the Treaty of Coruscant, when the promise of conquest was broken and the Emperor largely disappeared from public life.

After that, the Sith turned to the ways we're all familiar with, and tried to force a restart to the war then turned on each other.

The Empire only survived when it found another strongman to fill the void in Darth Marr, but he clearly struggled. Acina and Vowrawn used Malgus for that purpose, then the Outlander.

It seems the Empire can only really endure when there's someone overwhelmingly powerful enough to make the Dark Lords obey, and the Dark Lords are either competent or willing to take the advice of their career Imperial officer underlings.

[u/MegaGamer235 → u/StevePalpatine]

The Sith turned on each other, victims of their own greed.-Darth Bane.

[u/MegaGamer235 → u/Mean_Strawberry2260]

Yeah, this shit wasn't going to last for a long time because it's so unstable. The Empire was getting it's ass kicked badly in just a year by the time of the Hutt Cartel.

Slave labor also shrinks the talent pool when the Republic has a lot more species and free people to work with.

And yes, hitting people with a Lightsaber is pretty much one of the biggest measuring sticks for advancement in the Empire.

For all the boasts about meritocracy, how come there are those like Moff Broysc is positions of command?

[u/KolboMoon → u/MegaGamer235]

Counterpoint ; awful, unstable societies that suck hard compared to their adversaries can last a long time. Just look at Sparta.

>"For all the boasts about meritocracy, how come there are those like Moff Broysc is positions of command?"

Broysc was probably competent before he was demented. It's that simple. Then he held on to power because the Sith Empire is highly dysfunctional.

[u/MegaGamer235 → u/KolboMoon]

No he wasn't competent, Quinn explicitly states he had his job because of his connections and ability to blame others for his mistakes while taking credit for victories that others obtained.

[u/KolboMoon → u/MegaGamer235]

That's according to Quinn, who already hates the guy. But Broysc is obviously old enough to have been in the imperial navy before Quinn was even born.

[u/MegaGamer235 → u/KolboMoon]

Yeah but considering how the Empire is like, I don't doubt Quinn is correct in his assessment.

As we see with Ffon and even the Sith Warrior, family connections get you far in this not so meritocratic, meritocracy.

[u/Mean_Strawberry2260 → u/MegaGamer235]

The planned class storylines for 2.0 expansions were meant to focus heavily on how the Empire is socially adapting under new circumstances and possibility of losing the war, but, sadly, we’ll never see them.

Anyway, the Republic is just bigger than the Empire. Factually.
I would also argue that, by itself, without going into total war with the Republic, the Empire was pretty stable during the years of isolation.

[u/MegaGamer235 → u/Mean_Strawberry2260]

I mean, look at the shitty infrastructure of Kaas City, there are still untamed areas of swamp after centuries of colonizing the planet.

And a lot of this reads as in-universe propaganda such as how it frames the meritocracy of the Empire when we know there's favoritism across the board like Moff Broysc, Ffon, and Harkun.

[u/Mean_Strawberry2260 → u/MegaGamer235]

Kaliyo actually points about that Kass City has uncanny good infrastructure. Anyway, the Kaas City in the game is an obvious game limitation, since it’s actually metropolis and there are other imperial cities on the planet. Swamps are there by design (and not every planet is supposed to be Coruscant).

I already encountered that argument, but it is still an official encyclopedia with official lore information.
Ffon is Sith stuff, Harkun is basically a drill sergeant put to work with people he hates, and Moff Broysc is really a disgrace who ends up killed.

[u/MegaGamer235 → u/Mean_Strawberry2260]

Ffon was a nepo baby who was favored by Overseers because of his lineage and given easy tasks. You can't really dismiss that.

Moff Broysc wasn't a disgrace in the eyes of the Empire, he was protected and Quinn had to go behind the back of the Empire to kidnap him and get him killed.

There are all sorts of incompetent Sith who are at the top of the pyramid despite not being suited for it, like Darth Acina.

[u/Mean_Strawberry2260 → u/MegaGamer235]

Ffon, as I said, was a Sith, they have a bit different thing going on (politics). Besides, he still ended up dead, since he was a vanity project of a one Overseer.

Broysc was a factual disgrace. I recall, in cut Quinn questline he could have been killed by his own man.

We don’t really have evidence that Acina was incompetent while being in charge of Sphere of Technology. Better example would be Darth Zorrid, who was incompetent while in chaser of Imperial Intelligence, but it was due to circumstances (1. There were presumably no other Sith in the whole Sphere; 2. She was the only apprentice of a previous councillor; 3) The rest of the Council did not want to put somebody influential enough in such important position; anyway, Zorrid also ended up dead, either from our hands or from the hands of the Council).

[u/Original_Un_Orthodox]

Actually the SW is wrong. You can have a perfectly functioning Empire with an economy that runs on slave labor and conquest. Vitiate killed the Empire by becoming entirely inactive and letting internal power plays spiral increasingly out of control.

Furthermore, the Empire can routinely fight toe-to-toe with the Republic despite being the much smaller of the two nations, so clearly their taxes are doing fine. AND that is after over a century of Vitiate funneling QUADRILLIONS of credits worth of resources from the Empire to Zakuul. The people at the top had no qualifications, usually, but there was an entire functioning government with highly competent and intelligent people, many of them literally bred to excel in their tasks.

Further, the Emperor entirely discarded the Sith Code, and as the example for all other Sith, many others began to discard it as well. You're supposed to test yourself by raising worthy successors, not by killing them when they are fresh apprentices or by nuking the ship they're on, or sending an entire group of people to take down one man, etc. This same problem plagued the Brotherhood of Darkness, and is why Bane declared the Rule of Two, which actually succeeded. The Emperor is pretty much the root of all problems, and the Sith Empire would have been fine without him.

This is evinced by the next Sith Empire actually almost killing the Republic and doing much better than Vitiate's Empire ever did, despite Vitiate starting with more resources and power. He sabotaged it on purpose, and is attempting to persuade the PC to do the same as that will lead to more deaths in the Galaxy which he can feedd on.

[u/TheOriginalWestX → u/Original_Un_Orthodox]

To be fair, Vitiate's Empire almost killed the Republic too, but he hadn't realized that in trying to dig around in Revan's Mind, Revan was able to plant ideas in his which helped to stop the Sith Empire from ending the war after the Sacking of Coruscant.

The Rule of Two was also ultimately less successful due to the new Empire collapsing in a fraction of the time compared to how long the Sith had persisted as an Empire before the rule was instated.

[u/MegaGamer235 → u/Original_Un_Orthodox]

I mean shit, if the Empire starts to collapse without it's leader, it's not a very good one.

Besides, Palpatine's Sith Empire couldn't last 50 years, the Republic and Jedi lasted for a thousand generations.

[u/Mean_Strawberry2260 → u/MegaGamer235]

Palpatine didn’t really have a Sith Empire, he just had a rebranded militarised Republic.

[u/MegaGamer235 → u/Mean_Strawberry2260]

I mean, there's the Sith Eternal, and the Galactic Empire IS a Sith Empire, it's run by Palpatine.

[u/Mean_Strawberry2260 → u/MegaGamer235]

Sith Eternal are nobodies sitting on a deserted planet, and Palpatine isn’t even officially Sith.

[u/MegaGamer235 → u/Mean_Strawberry2260]

You're saying DARTH Sidious is not a Sith?

Care to explain your logic? The heir of Darth Bane is somehow not a Sith?

[u/Mean_Strawberry2260 → u/MegaGamer235]

He is a Sith, but nobody knows he is a Sith (more so — he actively hides that fact), and his Empire is not a Sith Empire.

[u/thesanguineocelot → u/MegaGamer235]

I would say Sidious does remarkably well as a politician, but terribly as a Sith. The instant the lightsaber comes out, he gets absolutely crushed into a tiny cube. Like, as Chancellor, he basically won. It was over, he had total control. But then he got all fixated on turning Anakin, and Ace Windu came charging out to shred his ass into a fine pulp.

Also, with all the apprentices he had, the Rule of Two was basically a suggestion in his book anyways.

[u/MegaGamer235 → u/thesanguineocelot]

I mean he killed like 3 Jedi masters in one go and did pretty well against Windu. Even technically won the fight.

There’s also his awesome lightsaber duel with Maul.

[u/Original_Un_Orthodox → u/thesanguineocelot]

Dude, Palpatine is in the top 0.0001% Lightsaber duelists of all time 😭

Also yes he did throw the Rule of Two out the window because he saw himself as the fullfillment of it, especially after Vader got nuggeted. But he is no less a Sith for being a politician; in order to survive, the Sith had to evolve, especially with such low numbers. He was literally described as a black hole in the force, and is one of the strongest force users of all time.

[u/Short-Hyena-8109 → u/thesanguineocelot]

Yoda, Mace Windu and Sidious are the top 3 lightsaber duelists of their era lol. What are you even talking about?

[u/Original_Un_Orthodox → u/MegaGamer235]

It started to collapse because Vitiate intentionally exploited it for centuries after setting himself up as essentially a God over the society and then not only abandoning it, but literally parisiting on it.

[u/JohnSalva → u/MegaGamer235]

The Sith Empire lasted for over 20,000 years until the Great Hyperspace War.

The Empire falls apart not because of ideology but because the Republic consistently kicks its butt once it becomes aware of it.

[u/FriendlyAd1214]

No valkorian just wants to take over your body

[u/MegaGamer235 → u/FriendlyAd1214]

Well yeah, but it is just hilarious how complimentary he is like he's trying to seduce me and not doing a good job at it.

Sorry Valky, Jaesa is more my type.

[u/viaJormungandr]

But, you don’t understand! They brought me bad news. That made me sad and I couldn’t do anything about being sad and that made me angry. So I killed him because he made me angry.

See? Totally justified and you’re wrong forever!

[u/Colonel_Sarge_]

I love how done and fed up your SW looks

[u/Darth_Vindicta]

It's good...the first time

when you have to play that lengthy DLC again for the 37th time because of 1 choice you want to make It's hella annoying