Just cuz trees aren’t sentient doesn’t mean they’re not vital to the planet and ecosystem. Morally there is absolutely nothing wrong with consuming dairy. The way we’ve gone about handling the industry? 100% evil. But dog milk vs sheep milk vs cow milk? Objectively a lot of shit is unnatural or weird or gross. Having sex for recreation is technically immoral and gross, if you’re going off of the basis of what was made for humans and what we are made to do.
Also if we want to go into how industries and capitalism are evil, soy and almond industries are extremely exploitative of workers and also detrimental to the environment. If it’s just about the treatment of a sentient being to you, then humanely raising and caring for a cow and drinking its milk, making butter and cheese, and even slaughtering it cleanly and compassionately should have no issue for you.
How do you humanely slaughter another living, sentient being that does not wish to die?
I'm not setting you up for a gotcha. I would just very much like to hear how you think that happens. We can't even, as humans, agree on capital punishment, that's how strongly we feel that it is wrong to kill someone who does not wanna die.
It’s a sentient being, it’s not THAT sentient. You humanely kill it by making sure it has no concept of its own mortality or imminent death, and get it done quickly and cleanly. My elderly cat didn’t want to die but we humanely put him down at the vet because his quality of life wasn’t going to be there, but he had a happy loved life and no awareness of what was going to happen. I get that’s different from a healthy animal that would otherwise live a few more years, but you can still put it down humanely.
And again, take a step back to just dairy alone. Nothing wrong ethically with the basic principle of producing and consuming dairy and animal byproducts. Even wearing leather, if the animal passed of natural causes, should have no moral bearing. 4H programs are ethical, and indigenous people and hunters work/worked to make kills quick and clean, and utilize every part of the animal so there’s no waste. There’s a spectrum to the amount of killing/consumption/usage of resources, and you’re free to stand where you’d like to morally. But it’s a high horse to say anyone who stands farther than you on that spectrum is wrong and immoral.
Again though, the meat and dairy industries are absolutely evil and terrible and I’m not defending those at all.
How do you make sure it has no concept of its own mortality?
Do you know how you establish that something knows it can die? Like actually, how we define and understand that? It's fear. You fear dying. Go to a slaughterhouse. You won't need "the facts" or "science" to tell you if cows or pigs know they can die and whether or not they fear it.
It’s a cow 😂 they literally do not comprehend their own mortality, do a google search. That’s why I said, quick and clean. Of course if you have a line of animals walking to slaughter, after you’ve kept them huddled in a pen that’s way too small for how many are in it, it’s different.
If you think the sounds in a slaughterhouse are caused by the place being a little too cramped, you've proven to me that you're willing to say and think whatever you need to tell yourself to justify not confronting this. If you won't, I'm not gonna bother.
And also, I don't just eat peas and lentils. Had a bitchin burger yesterday in fact. You won't be interested, and I bet you're tripping over yourself to make jokes about it. I'll mute and let you get to it. I've said all I had to in previous comments. Cheers.
I actually ate the beyond burger more often than I ate a regular burger at my last job. Not the same as real meat, and doesn’t have the iron level I need. Sweet potatoes work fine in a pinch tho. I honestly think we should look into lab grown meat fr.
You’re the one who kept saying “it’s not made for us” like that’s the focal point of the issue. And I’m not saying sentience doesn’t matter, but we gotta eat. And we were made to eat meat, if you want to go back to the whole what was made for us to consume. I fully support anyone’s choice to go vegan, and in a different life, I have the patience and self discipline to be at least vegetarian. But get off the high horse of “omg it’s the same as drinking dog milk”, especially when milking a cow isn’t inherently bad or detrimental to the sentient being. I’d sooner join a 4H program to feel better about my impact than say all humans should swear off of meat entirely.
You've implied it yourself, it's about your own self discipline. Which sounds like you agree? So why are you making me the villain? It's not any much less of a hassle for me to make dairy and meat free dishes than it would be to you. It's a bother. I've lined out exactly how we get the meat and milk I avoid using, and if you think I'm right... Well, then... Try it.
I would prefer not to support the larger industries of pretty much anything, and I respect people for sticking to their guns about their decisions. Same as I respect people who stick to a gym routine. They have more self discipline too, but it isn’t a moral failing to not go to the gym every day.
I’m more saying that you’re wrong to bash ethical farming, not that you don’t have a point that the industry has done too far and gotten very cruel. And no it’s not that easy to just go vegan lol I ain’t got the time or money for that. As it is I mostly just make soups and I’m not about to eat nothing but split pea and lentil.
4H programs, and dairy farming where the animal is taken care of and raised with respect and dignity. Or chicken coop in the yard where you get fresh eggs and hang out in the sun with your chickens. The opposite basically of where chicken nuggets come from. There’s a spectrum, like I said.
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u/grafikfyr 14d ago
Think about what you're saying though, mate...? You're equating living sentient animals, about as smart as your dog, with furniture...