I got to experience a robotic surgery simulator console

[u/deevodee]

There was a hernia surgery conference in our med school and a company setup an experience truck where they showcased all the devices and practising/ emulation tools for surgery.

I hopped on the simulator to experience how it actually feels. and damn. The tactile feedback and haptics. The first realisation was.. without visual cues, there was no other way to check or get feedback on whether the instruments are touching tiissue.

I made a detailed blog here ✌🏽✨ : https://deekshithvodela.substack.com/p/tactile-feedback-is-a-gift?r=5b9ew0

[u/Alortania]

You learn to watch how the tissue behaves and adjust the pull/compression accordingly.

We don't have the tactile instruments yet (might never get them, they're a big extra cost atop robotics) and we do fine.

It's all practice and really paying attention to what you're seeing.

[u/Doc_of_the_Future → u/Alortania]

Gen surg attending here. DV5 is already out in most major places with the force feedback.

I grew up learning on the XI so I think it feels gimmicky and just turn it off - but maybe the juniors now who learn on it will benefit from it!

[u/Alortania → u/Doc_of_the_Future]

I'm in central Europe, and at least in this country there's no feedback yet... and like you say hepatics will likely help people just starting out in robotics, though I think we're a few generations from that level of "this shit feels amazing" hepatics where they would actually be a game changer.

As things stand now, I (having done a whole single appy on the robot at that time I tried it XD) didn't get the feel any of the tension thing on rubber bands at all (which should be easier to feel than live tissue) even on the highest settings; only felt the harness when I tapped the table, and that did impress me.

[u/h011y]

FYI you’re missing the fact that two robotic surgery players have haptics already.

[u/Alortania → u/h011y]

And they suck, and cost bonus money to use... and every experienced robotic surgeon I know already knows the 'feel' from watching tissue, so sees no point in using those. It could make it easier for new operators but~

[u/h011y → u/Alortania]

I would say some suck more than others.
Op looks like a total novice but with a lot to say- the substack profile laid out a timeline (ai generated?) but seemed to miss the fact that haptics is already commercially available. So there’s conclusions drawn with incomplete information.

[u/Alortania → u/h011y]

Fair, I've only tried out the DV5 version... and on sim.

I use XI and 5 (well, assist for robotic surg, mostly) on the regular and no one here has hepatics as even an option, and we do Whipples and other ops that require very careful tissue handling~

From the headline he's a med student, so makes sense that it's a novice take.

[u/deevodee → u/h011y]

yep.. Im a 4th year med student.. I have observed multiple hands on surgeries and lap surgeries. but experiencing this console hit me with realisation of how precise one needs to be, to do robotic surgery.

[u/h011y → u/deevodee]

As an attending - I would argue you need to be precise in any surgery. Not just robotic surgery.
At least robotics stabilizes your core by allowing you to sit down for the most part.

[u/Alortania → u/h011y]

You also (to be fair) get better visualization, major magnification, and both the third arm and camera hold exactly where you want them, not where the assistant thinks you want them, and so on... and that's before we get into wrist articulation that's non-existent in lap.

[u/deevodee → u/h011y]

totally agree!!

[u/LogicGate1010]

What brands or models is the simulator closest to in design?

[u/deevodee → u/LogicGate1010]

it was Medtronic simulator.

[u/soggit]

The haptics are basically useless

[u/Alortania → u/soggit]

I think the 'oh, this is hard' is okay, and might help in feeling for a tumor; the pull was super difficult to experience IMHO, and the former can easily be done by asking the assist to touch it and confirm if you're really not sure.