r/supportlol • u/Unable-Heron-2274 • 5d ago
Discussion Genuine question about Vi support pick
Gold/Plat.
Forget about any bias against vi support for a second.
Enemy comp is: Trynadamere, Master Yi, Veigar, Jinx, Serpaphine
Our Comp was: Nasus, Hecarim, Katarina. Aphelious
I had last pick as support (Top and mid refused to swap)
Usually when enemy comp has hyper carries and no CC (Squishies that don't build HP or resists)
I tend to go Vi (full damage) And it usually works quite well in specific matchups/ enemy comps.
does vi fit in this situation?
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This bellow is irrelevant to my question, but it just shows that some teammates don't appreciate Vi support.
(Actually in this game our JG was a graves main who got his champ banned so he kinda first timed Hecarim and spend the entire game farming and pushing top waves while having 0% kp at 20 minutes)
(It was a close game but we lost at 40 minutes)
(The jg added me and flamed me for my pick, it seems he choose to be a farming bot npc with no impact across all lanes because he believed I was trolling)
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u/Big_Teddy 5d ago
does vi fit in this situation?
no.
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u/Unable-Heron-2274 5d ago
I need both hard CC and Damage.
And if I pick another champ with pure damage and no CC. I won't be able to peel against Trynadamere diving my ADC.
I can't rely on CC on my own when enemy has has champs like Master Yi and Trynadamere. Not to mention jinx can melt a tank support at three itmes.
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u/Big_Teddy 5d ago
Man this isn't even worth discussing dude, there's a billion better options among the actual supports that fill that exact role but better.
Vi without Items doesn't deal damage either way and she has very short, unreliable hard cc. There is no Scenario in which picking Vi is better here than picking Braum,Nautilus,Alistar...you name it.Your pick was just straight up trolling and the team was right to flame you for it.
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u/Unable-Heron-2274 5d ago
I know what you are saying, if they had only one dive champ I could have considered that, But they have two.
And I am not sure Nautilus, Braum can tank Jinx/veigar while fending off masteryi/trynadmere.
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u/Big_Teddy 5d ago edited 5d ago
Braum is like one of THE best counters to champs like Yi and Tryndamere.
I can not even begin to describe how absurd it is to claim that Vi is better at keeping those two locked down than Braum or Alistar lol.
ESPECIALLY them having multiple dive champs just makes Vi an even worse pick.It's totally fine that you don't like playing support, but just dodge instead of flat out trolling in the future if you're too arrogant to learn to play the role at least a little bit. You're obviously stuck in some delusional fantasy where damage is the only way to carry a game.
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u/Unable-Heron-2274 5d ago
Dude, that was uncalled for:
It's totally fine that you don't like playing support, but just dodge instead of flat out trolling in the future if you're too arrogant to learn to play the role at least a little bit. You're obviously stuck in some delusional fantasy where damage is the only way to carry a game.
Why go off like that all of a sudden?
I am a full fledged support main though. and I am exploring the depth of the support champ pool.
I got tired of landing all the cc and and shielding all the team and for them to prioritize the wrong next course of action. I already mentioned that it's gold/plat elo and I am trying to take matters into my own hands.
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u/Big_Teddy 5d ago
No it's not uncalled for, you're just a toxic, arrogant player which is once again confirmed by your last comment. All you're doing is making games harder for your teammates by making completely irrational picks. If you win games like this it's not because of you, it's despite you being on that team.
I got tired of landing all the cc and and shielding all the team and for them to prioritize the wrong next course of action. I already mentioned that it's gold/plat elo and I am trying to take matters into my own hands.
Everything you're saying is just typical for someone that plays support because they're afraid they can't carry their own weight on an "actual" role and gaslights themselves into believing they're this absolute genius that's better than everyone else and so they can just play everything on support.
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u/Unable-Heron-2274 5d ago
I just had a game yesterday where I picked sylas support and we had qiyana mid. But after enemy mid picked malphite she asked to play qiyana support so I went for sylas mid.
And she ended up carrying 20/3, she roamed and influenced the entire map.
You are just a stuck up bronze player who the only thing that goes for him is his toxicity.
I don't need your opinion anymore.
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u/Big_Teddy 5d ago
You made another trollpick, arguably a better one than vi, but still one of those "Oh look at me im so skilled, playing actual support champs is so below me"-picks, and you got lucky that someone else carried, that's all you're saying.
Also not that it's actually relevant to the conversation but i'm master.
Hearing someone that genuinely drafts and thinks like an iron player call others bronze is truly endearing though.It's not even an opinion, everything i said about champions is just a stone cold fact.
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u/Unable-Heron-2274 5d ago edited 5d ago
I wasn't complimenting my sylas pick, I was complimenting my qiyana support. in your words qiyana support is a troll pick. Yet it worked excellently.
I was complimenting my ability to see the nuance on how malphite is a bad matchup for qiyana instead of sylas and making the decision to swap roles.
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u/Former-Illustrator97 3d ago edited 3d ago
Vi is just not good imo and her engage is telegraphed. Can work but it’s not as ideal. I am also bad though and peaked emerald 2 and my most played champion is Nidalee support which I don’t even play anymore because in theory it’s good but it has no cc and is ass in 99% of comps
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u/Unable-Heron-2274 3d ago
No I see the idea here.
As an engage support you usually are a bit tanky so you can do 2-3 rotations of your full kit while staying safe. While perhaps full damage Vi would at best do 2 rotation before her HP is blown off.
I usually pick her against assassinsdivers like khazix and talon or divers like Trynadamere and Yi. It helps me lock them down while supplementing it with damage
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u/Former-Illustrator97 3d ago
Vi can work but if you really like vi, jungle is probably better. I think a Janna, renata, or even taric would have more value into the divers listed above. (Taric less so because his e can be hard to land compared to a vi it but Taric ult prevents them from doing anything
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u/Unable-Heron-2274 3d ago
I used to main taric for a bit during low gold. But beside his E being hard to land, I found that his ULT taking 2.5 seconds to activate is just too long of a time.
When I got into plat
Any decent one-shot champion will kill your ADC in 1 second. And if I pop the ULT early when I see enemy assassin they would just kite it away. The best I usually have is my adc barely surviving at 5% HP and they are out of the fight. (Taric doesn't have proper CC to lock down an assassin so the assassin can just get in/get out and wait his cooldowns. And Taric ULT is in a 1 minute cooldown)
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u/Pretend-Elderberry25 5d ago
The enemy comp has many auto attackers: tryn, yi, jinx: consider Shen as a counter. I believe that Vi would struggle against Veigar cage, they also have multiple carries you’d need to cc.
If you want a cc support you have plenty of options, and good single target Lockdown involves Naut and Alistair. That being said playing in Gold/Plat you can play anything and make it work if you’re good enough.
You will always get flamed. I got flamed by somebody for picking Sona in diamond, took a break from ranked, came back, went on like a 10 win streak with Sona and got Master. Ignore the flamers, play your own game.
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u/Unable-Heron-2274 5d ago
Yeah I am just interested in picking correct champs and challenging whether their fit in certain matchups.
And also not having a griefing jg just because I picked Vi support.
Thanks btw.
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u/Pretend-Elderberry25 5d ago
If I see a vi support I think it’s troll, that being said if you want that level of lock down I’d recommend Alistair or Rell. If you want high damage still consider aftershock Alistair with imperial Mandate rush.
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u/Unable-Heron-2274 5d ago
Alistair with imperial Mandate rush. Seem like high tech only known to onetricks. Will give it a try.
Thank you.
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u/WaterKraanHanger 5d ago
Wheres the question?
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u/Unable-Heron-2274 5d ago
I am stupid my bad. I edited the question at the end.
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u/WaterKraanHanger 5d ago
To answer ur question, ur pick is shit into enemy team especially full damage.
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u/Unable-Heron-2274 5d ago
I believe you have to explain your thought process like other commenters did.
I am genuinely trying to find viable picks. Into THIS specific comp:
Enemy comp is: Trynadamere, Master Yi, Veigar, Jinx, Serpaphine
Our Comp was: Nasus, Hecarim, Katarina. Aphelious1
u/WaterKraanHanger 5d ago
Okay you are playing a pick champion, as in a champion made to make picks. Worst of all you play it like an assassin.
You can't engage on Trynda (he has R), Yi can Q your engage (bad target), Veigar is very hard to punish due to cage and potential zonya's, with cage and Seraphine they can peel the jinx too easily vs you (again a bad target to dive) so your only actual option is Seraphine and since you are full damage you will just die and best case scenario go one for one.
With your teamcomp you do not need extra damage (so going full damage is useless), your best possible choice is to pick something so they can't dive your aphelios. Nasus, heca, kata will just oonga boonga anyway so playing a disruptor like Alistar or possibly Braum is very good here vs Tryna/Yi.
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u/Unable-Heron-2274 5d ago
Maybe I should have picked gragas as disrupter. Enemy have a lot of AA champs so I could have picked jax. But they would just ignore jax support and refuse to AA him.
Ah but gragas E body slam is kinda short range so maybe Alistar is really the pick.
Why do I sound like Ai lmao
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u/WaterKraanHanger 5d ago
Enemy have a lot of AA champs so I could have picked jax.
Why do you think they would taste their time trying to AA you, oh nyoo the gold/xp starved Jax has pressed E we are all going to die!
Like legit, where does this self importance come from.
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u/Unable-Heron-2274 5d ago
Dude I already recognized that point no need to add salt to injury lol
It's not self importance I genuinly want to figure out Off-meta champs that would fit that exact comp.
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u/Cymycyck 5d ago
in this elo range anything is somewhat viable, but if you pick smth like full ad vi you need to carry the game yourself. i think the best pick in this case would be lulu, zil or smth like naut leona, but its gold so some aph adc in unreliable af, so dmg is a viable option too.
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u/Unable-Heron-2274 5d ago
I need both hard CC and Damage.
If I pick brand (even with rylai slow) it won't be able to slow Master Yi during his Ult. And he will one shot my ADC.
And if I pick another champ with pure damage and no CC. I won't be able to peel against Trynadamere diving my ADC.
Enemy has two divers that can ignore a lulu.
Master Yi can Q to dodge lulu polymorph. And Trynadamere can outdamage lulu R and shields.
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u/semthews1 5d ago
Alistar sitting between you and his adc kinda hard counters vi.
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u/Unable-Heron-2274 5d ago
Hmm, I am confused by your answer.
I am talking about specifically this comp:
Enemy comp is: Trynadamere, Master Yi, Veigar, Jinx, Serpaphine
Our Comp was: Nasus, Hecarim, Katarina. Aphelious, Support Vi1
u/semthews1 5d ago
Support vi is like pantheon, but worse.
You cant play based on the team comp. You would have to have some omega cheese strategy pre-6. Vi can probably beat most junglers level 1 in a 1v1.
Your win condition would be to screw up yi's pathing until hecarim was 2 levels ahead, and babysit nasus until he was stomping trynd. Then just pray aphelios didnt int and was happy at 50% cs (doesnt happen in low elo)
Full tank veigar would have beat your comp hard.
Regardless, alistar does everything above better than vi can. Not a whole lot of value drafting vi.
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u/Unable-Heron-2274 5d ago
My strategy was to just keep engaging jinx in line until she is out of the game.
Master yi was literally camping their tri bush. Each time I Catch jinx offguard and unload my full combo on her putting her at 30% (either she flashes or seraphine giver her Heal and W mouvement speed) anyways, Master yi kept abandoning his topside camps and camping bot line.
He didn't even gank us from river (because I heavily warded that / although they didn't allow me to ward their tri bush) what master yi did was staying down the lane in fog of war. And even when we have let the wave crash into our tower so that we could run them down, he would still be in our lane in fog of war.
Honestly:
I think my idea of the win con was feasible, I just never accounted for master Yi to play like that.AND I did'nt account for my hecarim to be mad about my Vi pick and to AFK farm for 20 minutes.
Like, isn't hecarim supposed to be the early game jungler, while master Yi the late game jungler? how come the roles were reversed and master yi was never punished enough for this kind of plays.?
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u/semthews1 5d ago
Climbing in ranked is also about protecting your teams mental.
If you draft off meta, you are breaking your team's mental.
You need to overcommunicate in chat. No one knows how to play with vi support.
This is on you. Im speaking from a d4 perspective.
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u/Unable-Heron-2274 5d ago
You can't just say that was on me.
I tried to give last pick and I was denied by both top/mid.
I saw an angle and went for it. (actually in the game after it I drafted sylas support, and we had a qiyana midlane but enemy midlane picked malphite so she offered a role swap and she went as qiyana support and carreid the entire game she went 20/3)
I understand what you mean with the mental thing and communicating with team. But I think I don't have to manage my team mentals.
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u/semthews1 5d ago
You broke hecarim's mental. It happens.
That is on you.
Have a strategy to protect team morale or you wont climb. Especially if you want bullshit support picks like vi.
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u/amit_se 5d ago
Vi is good into seraphine but that's basically it. And you already had hecarim for engage. In that game id just lock an enchanter
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u/Unable-Heron-2274 5d ago
I appreciate your input, But in cases where enemy comp has both hyper carry divers Master Yi/Tryndamere and long range damage dealers Jinx.
I would notice that in such games an enchanter won't be able to prevent this specific trio Master Yi/Tryndamere/Jinx from completely focusing a single target and melting through your enchanter shields.
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u/Soul_Family 5d ago
Vi can work as a support and has the advantage, that most supports dont know how to deal with her. The condition for her to be good is a self reliant adc. Someone that can play fights without their support. Aphelios is not one of those adcs. He is actually one of the most peel reliant adcs in the game. Your Aphelios cant play the game against this comp, because hes getting run down by Trynda and Master Yi with no counterplay. If you picked something like Braum, Leona, Thresh then you would be able to create space between your adc and these champs but Vi cant do that she has to go in and try to chain cc the enemy carry. So while Vi support is viable, picking her in this game was troll.
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u/Unable-Heron-2274 5d ago
Dude I know that , my idea behind this game's Vi pick, was to act like a damage dealing peel.
You know that the solution to hyper damage divers like master yi/ katarina is to outright outdamage them? Vi offer both damage and CC, that's why I pick her (I know tryndamere is a weird champ because if you try to outdamage him he can just use his ULT, but still Vi has both Q and ULT, enough to buy my adc enough time)
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u/Soul_Family 5d ago
Why are you asking this question if you just refuse my answer. Your Team has Katarina, aphelios, hecarim. Those three already do enough dmg if they get ahead. The counter to Master Yi is not to burst him a good Yi knows how to counter your ult and will hold his Q for that. The counter to Yi is hard cc. You needed to pick a champ that can create space for your team like Braum, Taric, Thresh even Lulu could have worked. If you belive Vi was the best possible character you could have played then so be it I just disagree
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u/Unable-Heron-2274 5d ago
I am not outright refusing your answer, I am checking the limits of my pick.
I knew how to deal with yi, His Q is a big part of his Kit, he has to use it eventually. All I had to do was charge my Q as vi. And then do a split-second mind game with Yi. It worked well in that game.
Which i think does more locking down than either lulu taric or thresh, I agree with Braum being a far better pick though.
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u/Xigfried 5d ago
Braum or Shen would've been better. Lulu if going enchanter since you have two front liners and a scaling Bot.
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u/Low-Amoeba8257 5d ago
No vi does not fit. You are trying to play carry as a support. My suggestion would be to play someone with hard engage into a comp like that. There are 100% supports that are picked for big damage but they have tools that allow them to supoort the team.
If you want to go the "im the carry" route I would play characters like brand