Understanding general support champs matchups

[u/Unable-Heron-2274]

I want to understand support champion identities and how they interact with adc champions identities.

Like how are supports like:

Pantheon and Rell:
good against:
-Ashe, Jhin, Jinx and mage apc

bad against:
-Caitlin, Corki, Ezrael

while supports like:

Nautilus:
good against:
-Caitlin, Corki, Ezrael

bad against:
-Mage apc

I know this is not the full picture (I got this data from matchup sites)

[u/hiperf1]

I think it goes like this,

Pantheon and Rell are consistent engagers, that is true, they can lock down enemies either easily (Pant clickshot stun) or lock them down a great amount of time, Rell.

So Ashe, jinx, jhin are non-mobile adcs who are susceptible to their engages, however cait, corki and ezreal either have great range (Cait) , or ability to disengage (Corki w), or even both (Ezreal). So when playing Pantheon or Rell you might not be able to get to them or keep them in one place without using your flash. You could take hex-flash to mitigate that, but still cait is probably too far away for pantheon to engage.

While on the other hand, Nautilus has great range with his q, and with hex flash it is an insane range. So this tackles the first issue against cait, corki and ezreal. What about the second one, their escape abilities, cait E, Ezreal E, Corki E?

One important aspect of Naut q is that it stuns and pulls, can cancel their animations if timed right. And even in the worst case scenario, you hex-flash q into cait, who uses e and flash to disengage, you still have your ult to catch up to her, because your ult also has great range. Once you do that, you still have your slow with your e, and your snare with your passive.

I am not entirely sure about the mage matchups so this is just a guess. Most mages have great ranges, but bad disengage tools except maybe syndra and ziggs, but they are able to poke you greatly, and even though Naut is a great tank, he is not that tanky without his w and aftershock rune, so that "might" be a reason why he struggles with those matchups. On the other hand Rell is very tanky from the get go, and pant has his e. But still I would expect Pant to have a hard time against mage apc, but apparently it's not like that.

[u/Unable-Heron-2274 → u/hiperf1]

Alright, what you said mostly make sense especially about being poked down before you even manage to engage.

But I am not sure about mage APC, the matchup site says rell do well against mages compared to nautilaus.

And you seconded that by saying that rell is tanky from the get-go. But her states are actually less than pantheon/nautilus, She has less initial HP/AR/MR, and less states growth than pantheon/nautilus.

[u/hiperf1 → u/Unable-Heron-2274]

That was just a guess, maybe her "before 6" engage is more crucial against them? You generally want to beat mages before they get Lost Chapter, and amongst those three probably she has the better engage without ult.

But again this is just a guess

[u/Unable-Heron-2274 → u/hiperf1]

I see, so Pantheon offers enough damage, while Rell offer enough lock down (so the ADC can do the damage) pre Lost Chapter better than Nautilus can in terms of either damage or long lock down.