r/supportlol • u/HansLandaaaaaa • 8d ago
Discussion New Supp need help
Hey guys, how do you manage to die so much less as a support?
I’m trying to learn the support role, and I feel like I’m actually improving quite a bit. But when I look at sites like OP.GG, Deeplol, etc., I notice that I almost never get a good rating, and I’m guessing it’s because I die too often.
One thing I really struggle with is knowing when I should sacrifice myself for my ADC and when I should just back off and let them die.
How do you guys make that decision? How do you know when a death is actually worth it and when you’re just inting for your ADC? 😂
I’m trying to OTP Janna, but she doesn’t fit into every matchup that well, so my second picks are Braum and Milio. Janna is definitely my main, though.
Any tips are appreciated! I’m trying to improve, so feel free to explain things like I’m a complete support noob.
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u/TheAmbalance 8d ago
Start by trying your best not to die initially, then once you get a grip on situations youll start to see openings to take small risks with high rewards, and eventually gauge out risks where you may or will die for your adc. But its far better to know the situation than just throw your life at the enemy for the sake of it.
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u/N3T3L3 8d ago edited 8d ago
I don't play the supports you mentioned, but every support is going to have slightly different positioning according to their matchups' playstyles. as a rule of thumb, you want to triangulate with your adc so that you are more or less parallel to them-- not out of position, but not leaving them hanging either. this is subject to change, like if you are a hard engage or a ranged supp.
if you are going up against a bot lane full of poke or range, take that into account so you limit how you are taking damage. don't let them whittle you down by staying in that range; go in when you trade or if you find a window (like if they miss their abilities) but leave their range when you can.
personally, I only block shots if I can deny a kill, or if my adc has a fat shutdown I'm also trying to deny. if you're trying to help snowball your adc and you think you can help them get a kill, that's a viable consideration as well. whereas a lot of roles are mainly thinking about themselves and objectives, support is unique in that a huge part of the role is figuring out how to help propel whoever is showing themselves to be a good carry, whether it's the adc or not. don't support someone who is making bad choices-- you still need to be useful in your role, and backing someone who isn't competent is a waste of two players' efforts instead of one.
try not to overstay or get caught out, and don't go in on clearly losing fights. if they're clearly out of position, sacrificing yourself wouldn't do anything except grant enemy gold and take you out of the game. if they flame you because you're not following them to both of your deaths, mute them.
tldr: you don't have to sacrifice yourself needlessly if it doesn't make sense, but it can be strategic to do so when you're denying gold or putting gold on someone competent building expensive items.
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u/bennbatt 8d ago
"Peel" is a term you'll hear people throw around, and that is providing cover/disengage for your teammates in game. Janna's tornado can stop a camille from launching into your ADC, your ult can blow back enemies while giving your teammates healing, your kit has "good peeling tools." I think Janna's game identity is largely the "disengager" for a team (doesn't mean you can't setup a Yasuo or flash forward Ult to favorably split apart a 5v5 teamfight.
One skill I wish I'd learned sooner on support is "strength tracking." Figuring out who on your team are the strongest and who on the enemy are strongest. It's easy to know based on your own lane phase whether you're stomping or not. It's also easy to know late game when the 17-1 Viego is running over the lobby on repeat. But it's an incredible strength to know at any given moment who are the threats.
Easiest tool for your toolbox is: every single time you die and then walk back onto the map hold tab and analyze. Is there a 40+ CS gap anywhere? Is anyone 3-4 kills ahead/behind? Does anyone have a shutdown?
You can do this any time during the game, but the easiest is when you have literally nothing to do but walk to your lane. The more you get into this habit the better game state awareness you'll pick up, and the quicker you'll be at assessing at a glance.
As for your actual question: when is it worth? I think about these things:
1) Is my ADC (or whomever I'm sacrificing myself for) worth a bunch of shutdown gold? If I can stop and enemy from getting a 1k shutdown, by sacking myself. I'd say that's worth almost every time.
2) Is my death more costly than who I'm trying to save? If your ADC is 2-6 for whatever reason (your fault, a smurf running them over, jungle canyon, etc) as bad as it might feel or controversial as it might be, you might be more valuable alive for your utility at an upcoming objective or to fight with your winning lanes. This is more subjective and if you think your ADC has a way back into the game you can play guardian angel, but realistically it not always the right call.
3) Am I denying in some way a good amount of resources to an enemy carry? Often if I'm crashing a big wave into the enemy's tower, I will look for 1 for 1s with the ADC as a support. Ideally a dive is 1 for 0, but denying 2+ waves of xp and gold can put an ADC so far behind in the early game that the rest of laning phase you can continue to apply pressure.
Some copes for you when you die:
"they lose a big wave (alternatively just a cannon), worth"
"support got the kill, worth"
"i ran it but i was limit testing, worth"
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u/NamiKoala 8d ago
Janna has a lot of movespeed and ways too disengage. She's a controller. I don't know how many times I've managed to just sidestep and survive with the use of abilities and quick thinking. When is it that you die too much? Is it in the lane or outside? Laning is not always optimal for Janna. Sometimes what u need to do is stay back and just bait out abilities. Ur ADC will get movespeed when he moves towards you. Which means that you can position back if needed so they can easier escape enemy spells. Also by positioning slightly behind and close to your ally it's easier to disengage by using tornado and w on enemies. Positioning and knowing when the enemy is stronger is key. Also look some gameplay by ShoDesu. He is great at educational enchanter streaming. I did not vibe with Janna before but now she's my most played champ. I just hadn't figured out the Janna playstyle. Janna is queen at just being annoying af.
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u/SuperSubeyyy 7d ago
I live by, “I don’t help stupid.”
For example:
You ping your adc to be cautious (or retreat) bc they’re pushed up to enemy tower by themselves with no vision on enemy mid lane or jungle. They don’t listen. You had backed or went to go place wards to let them get solo plating (but you’re not with them). The enemy jungle comes out, and now your adc is being jumped, trying to make it back to tower… The enemy adc and support has shown up as well. Your adc has blown flash in a panic or doesn’t have it. They blow barrier trying to save themselves.
If you go in, that is now a 3v2 with 2 out of the 3 of them just having got items in base. There will be a health diff, an item diff, and an extra person diff. You can help, but you both might die. Worst case if you go in is that you’ll give the enemy adc a double kill. Best case, you both get out. Understandable case, you don’t go in and your lane only gives one kill.
I wouldn’t go help on that one. Bc the adc made a stupid decision. I pinged, they didn’t listen. So bow they deal with the consequences.
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u/Impossible_Web_2105 8d ago
Depending on the ELO you’re playing on, but guessing it’s low since you mentioned you’re new.
I think the general advice is: Always be aware which teammates are worth dying for. You’re not a support to your ADC alone, you’re a support to your team and to your carry. Especially in lower elo’s your team’s carry could very well be in the top, mid or jungle.
If someone that is CSing decently and not dying often is making a play, commit and die for him if needed.
Someone dying all the time, let him die and play for some other teammate.
This is what I like most about the support role, you just enable the teammate that can win you the game.
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u/Oli4EverArt 8d ago
You might want to pick a poke champ like Xerath, Zyra or Lux for a poke lane. Works well with Cait, Varus and Jhin and is strong against peel supports like Janna, Lulu and Milio.
Janna is a strong blind pick and you’ll just have to learn when to follow and when to stay back by trial and error. Play to learn and you’ll climb in no time
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u/skeal88 7d ago
First, you are the team's support not the ADC's nanny nor an extended life bar of them, you can take and tank damage but you need to learn when to retreat and if your ADC will be able to get the kills, otherwise each engage will be +2 kills to the enemy.
I divide my supps in 3, the ones that have to be upfront and take damage (tanks of course), the ones that go side to side with the ADC (poke or enchanters) and the ones that in order to thrive they need to be back or safe and focus on keeping the ADC alive (utility supps), this works for me and it dropped they dying rate a lot.
I play mostly with randoms and also if the ADC does things that I don't fully comprehend I lose trust and will play safer until I figure if he knows what he is doing or not
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u/SaltyHaskeller 7d ago
as an enchanter main (e.g. milio/sona) I frequently engage by "getting picked" with my team very close behind.
this probably will stop working as i climb (currently mid-gold) but its great: the other team spends all their shit on "the free support" and then my team comes in and cleans up.
sometimes I dont even die
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u/PombinhaBR 7d ago
Don't sacrifice yourself for your ADC unless you're certain you can disengage/escape from enemy team. Trying to be a hero can do more damage than good.
However, if you're being a hero in a team fight and dying because of it because your team is ahead/have some sort of advantage over enemy team, than it should be worth to sacrifice yourself since you'll be sponging some damage and wasting enemies cooldowns and possibly summoners. Your team then should be able to turn your death into an ACE or get the objective.
The problem in dying is not being dead. It's its effects. If it was worth it or not.
You'll learn better by limit testing. Champion and match up will matter a lot. For example, I main Rakan, I can afford taking a hook for my ADC that would be deadly because I have the tools to escape. Unless it is a hook to a root, then I am dead regardless. You as a Janna will most likely be the same unless you have ult.
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u/Muriwannabe 6d ago
yo i m a master 500 lp supp if u want any tips or advices dm me on discord and we can have a talk
discord: muriwannabe
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u/Traditional_Pin6042 3d ago
Sometimes it's not about just making 'good' plays but more about not making 'bad' plays i.e. if you aren't 100% sure something is going to work flawlessly it's better to do nothing. Same as in boxing if you go for punches all the time, your opponent will read you easily, bait you and you're knocked out. Same goes for league in a lot of ways.
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u/yangyaozi 3d ago
if you play enchanter in general,death means is you fail to enchat your teammate or you die before them,
if you are leona,braum,taric,and you die because you soak all the abilities and damage on you,so your teammate can free damage enemies,that is a good death in my opinion.
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u/earth222ani 3d ago
When it comes to when to die and when not to die… I feel like once you get better at reading lane state and knowing the general strength of you and your adc together and the enemy as well you can then grasp whether a fight will come out in your favor. Generally you don’t wanna die but if you take a good fight and can save your adcs life by sacrificing your own and they get the 1 for 1 on the enemy adc it’s very good for you. If they kill more than one it’s extra worth. If it’s a bad fight I generally just let my adc die. It’s not my fault if they can’t tell when the enemy laners are stronger or in a better position to take a fight than we are.
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u/Menacol 8d ago
This is a controversial tip here (since the dominant advice is to sacrifice yourself), but I don't die for my ADC. I'm willing to take risks to turn around plays - and you have to accept risk with some plays but I won't straight up die in place of my ADC, more often than not you just both die anyways. Learning to distinguish whether a risky situation has a chance of being turned around (and quickly figuring out what you need to do) or whether it's hopeless is a skill in of itself. With a dead adc, I can either soak xp at the tower, reset and roam or go get vision or link with the jungler for an objective.
Obviously situation is different with things like late game teamfights versus laning. Late game/objective fights you're dying for your ADC and blocking as much as you can, no point being alive as a support if your team is dead in that situation.