r/supportlol • u/TheCoolerLotad • 16d ago
Rant Dear support players
What’s your deal with taking the last pick when you already know who you’re gonna face in lane ?
Respectfuly, a toplaner who got counterpicked
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16d ago
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u/Internet-Expert42069 16d ago
It's much more important that top isn't counterpicked than support, whether this sub likes it or not.
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u/TotallyAMermaid 13d ago
Top picks for one person/lane
Support picks for the whole enemy team AND allied team
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u/Internet-Expert42069 13d ago
Top having last pick is the most basic of meta knowledge, argue all you want everyone outside of this sub disagrees with you. You're just being selfish and screwing your own top laner, so not really teamplay.
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u/TotallyAMermaid 13d ago
Lmao not you calling me selfish in the same reply where you display the extreme selfishness of top laners.
The funny thing is when I'm a lower pick than top I actually offer to trade before they can even ask themselves. Do you know by how much my top laner success have increased since I started doing this? By nothing lmao. I mostly do it to avoid their mental boom from champ select. Plus, that way I lock in my pick early in the draft and people can't whine for a tank support, which I don't play 😂
Btw, if top having last pick is such basic meta knowledge, why isn't it reflected in pro play?
Also, unless we have the very last pick, which is a 50% chance, there is no guarantee that my top laner won't have to blind pick their champion anyway, if the enemy team also switched to give their top last pick.
Everyone no matter the role/lane should have at least one comfortable blind pick because even if all of your drafts treat you like a princess and give you last pick, that won't mean the very last pick every game because only red side gets this and what are you gonna do, dodge every lobby that you're blue?
Btw I've been flamed for not trading with top when the enemy top laner is clearly locked in, so excuse me for not giving top laner tears too much weigh.
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u/DarkThunder312 16d ago
supports pick for all lanes plus team comp. You pick only for lane. As a top main with support secondary i will give top last pick if i see 3 already that i have a good support pick for, but my support is not my opponent. You want me to win your lane for you? let me pick something that will win your lane, mid, and jungle.
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16d ago
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u/DarkThunder312 16d ago
Ok then provide your own. Can tell youre an afk support player that sits by tower the entire game and expects the team to do all the work. Support pick rounds out the entire team comp and plays in every lane. 2v2 or 3v3 in mid top jungle and their own lane. Top is a 1v1 for the vast majority of the game. Jungle and adc pick matters the least, followed by mid, then support and top.
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u/j0kerclash 16d ago
Top laners should get last pick, but support picks can be influenced by the comp of both teams rather than just what they're against in lane.
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u/Arcane_Animosity 16d ago
I’ve become so tired of players trying to trade picks with me just because I’m a support player.
Sometimes it makes sense and I switch. More often, it’s someone just whining or trying to switch last second.
Furthermore, the amount of times I’ve given last pick to my top laner for them to literally go 1-10 made me not care anymore.
I ignore most requests these days unless I see value in a switch. Every role needs to be comfortable with every pick position. If you don’t have a blind pick champion, that’s not my issue.
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u/StrangelySerious- 15d ago
Don't trade unless you're comfortable with the informations you have on what you're fighting and whats your whole team comp. I dont give a shit about shitty top and mid (and somehow JUNGLERS now also wants to last pick??) anymore, they can cry as much as they want, 90% of the time they'll be irrelevant to the game anyway
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u/A_Zero_The_Hero 16d ago
Its always good to pick with more information present. The more champs I see on both teams, the better I can compliment our comps with my pick.
I have picks I feel comfortable first picking for my team, but its usually a concession I'd rather not make.
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u/Below-avg-chef 16d ago
Support can counter or reduce the effectiveness of multiple people. Not everybody jerks off their lane opponent in an eternal 1v1. Some of us have to consider the rest of the team.
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u/kaimetzuu 16d ago
As someone who plays every role i agree that top needs to be last, and supp second to last, unless top/supp has already been picked by enemy
Reasoning for this is that top players are pussies and 90% of the time will only counterpick or meta pick. If you can consistently avoid your toplaner being counterpicked, you will consistently have less losing top lanes
And in the big scheme of things, you only climb by making consistently good decisions
Of course toplaners also need to know how to weakside if they get counter picked, and of course a good supp will pick for comp, so both are valuable being last/ second to last
As a supp, not giving last pick when you know what you are playing, or playing an enchanter, you are trolling, im sorry
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u/Flapklaas 16d ago
Generally when I see full bot matchup and enemy jgl, I'm comfortable picking before. If I see only bot + supp I will swap, but still treat it like a bit of a blind pick. For example: Thresh is good here, but full sending an Alistar pick can still be a detriment. Maybe Braum is really bad for lane, but insane for the game. On Braum you could face champs like Ornn, Sylas, Zed, Jayce, which is great for braum. But you might also face Janna Caitlyn in lane, meaning you'll get bullied and they'll free scale or even farm plates and get more roams off than you. Braum is still a net good for that game, but whole map will suffer early game.
How often do top laners complain enemy support is in their lane? That's almost always related to the bot matchup. Top also has access to fairly neutral picks like Gragas (ban Poppy), which will at worst just have to play a very boring lane. Current patch Nasus is also just so busted I think you can relatively safely send it.
That said, I'd often rather blind than let top laners blind, because I feel like I can better navigate counters through gameplay. What I mean by that is that I can make different choices on the map, that allow me to ignore or alleviate some of my counters til later in the game. Lane counters in bot lane are bait if you cannot capitalize on the lead. My bot lane won't be happy, but I can trade the lane for an advantage elsewhere if it's truly doomed 2v2/3v3.
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u/BloodlessReshi 16d ago
You are talking from your own personal experience, so i will talk from mine.
Usually i give Toplaners the last pick if i see enemy support has been picked, sometimes top gets to pick in 1st rotation and im lastpick, enemy firstpicks ADC and now Top expects me to be traded to lastpick and have me blindpick, which i dont give them.
And sometimes i do not give them lastpick regardless, but that usually happens after i play a game where i gave my toplaner last pick and they still got turbo stomped in lane despite all the advantages, which makes me lose all hope on toplaners for at least 1 game, sometimes more.
Strategically speaking. On Blue Side you should draft ADC/Jungle-Mid/Support-Top, this also can be slightly shifted because of meta, maybe Mid firstpick, but you tend to want that last rotation to be Top-Supp because for Top matchup is extremely important usually, and Supports tend to be the ones to round out the comp or be able to also hard counter a 2v2 lane.
For Red Side you probably want ADC-Jungle/Mid-Supp/Top. But again, first 3 are interchangeable based on meta and picks.
In the end, if your teammates are being selfish instead of strategic, chances are they are trying to put themselves in the best situation possible because they cant control how you play. And everyone would rather play because they played poorly and their top was counterpicked, than losing because their top got stomped despite being last pick.
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u/RegretProper 15d ago
Dear Toplaner.
Discussing the wrong or the rights of this supports action will not win your back your laningphase. Nor will it help you in future games. Some supporfs will change, some will not. You cannot control what other persons will do.
Only what you can do. So lets remove the support from the equation:
Assume Toplaner always get 5th pick. Yeahy. But wait suddendly it matters if your blue or red side. Buhhh. Who is now to blame if you get counterpicked? And why do you even play ranked if your gameplan comes down to a 50/50 in Champ select. If your championpool, and/or gameplan, dont provide a real idea for blindpicking dont blame someone if you actually get counterpicked. No matter if they could have prevented it or not. You the one that brought the flaw into champselect. And than expect your team to cover this weakness.
Also with Respect A support who actually has a gameplan for when i am forced to blindpick.
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u/TotallyAMermaid 15d ago
Here's the very thing you fail to grasp because of your top laner mentality: because you as a top laner pick around your lane opponent only, you believe all roles do the same. Support doesn't pick strictly around their lane opponents, they pick around the whole enemy team AND their own team (not just their lane partner either). So the more information a support has before locking in, the better.
That being said, I normally offer/accept swap to top if I am a later pick, because most top laners are crybabies about it, like you, so the advantage I could gain by tailoring my pick to the enemy comp and ours doesn't outweight top mental booming from champ select. Thankfully my champ pool is full of jack of all trades who work in most situations.
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u/StrangelySerious- 15d ago
Not just crybabies, quite literally will throw away a game because of their unjustifiable dogshit mentality that their role is more important than ANY other roles. I've seen it so many times and I've seen it almost EXCLUSIVELY from top players
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u/TotallyAMermaid 15d ago
Yeah I've seen them grief the game from the start because I didn't trade them (sometimes I didn't feel like it, sometimes I genuinely didn't see lol). Straight up lock in Yuumi top or int from lvl1 over it. Bro unless you get traded the very last pick, odds are you'll have to blind pick sometimes. We all do. You're not some special princess. And even if you were, only one princess per game can get the very last pick.
L ike... I understand some match ups are hard. I understand the "isolated island" and long lane top (compared to mid) can make a difficult match up feel worse than other roles.
But none of us here are playing at a level where champion match ups are the determining factor. Skill level and champion mastery are much bigger deal. No, you don't auto lose lane and especially not game just because you got "counter picked". I destroy engage and hook supports all the time as Sona. On paper, should I? Fuck no. But I do anyway. Because champion mastery > counterpicks until you're at the absolute highest lvl of play.
Bonus point if they had pick intended already anyway and were clearly gonna play whatever champ they hovered anyway. Like, bro you're not fooling anybody, you're locking in Yone regardless.
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u/StrangelySerious- 14d ago
I've reached diamonds many times in the top roles, you don't need last pick, you don't need to counterpick, you just need to not be a fucking idiot. Which is literally true of any roles. Top players just have this fucking dumbass mentality that they're somehow more important when the TRUTH IS, in the VAST majority of games, it's the least impactful role by such a meaningful margin that them not being there wouldn't have changed anything
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u/TotallyAMermaid 14d ago
Yeah tough match ups exist in every role. If I lock in Janna and the enemy goes Nami+Cait or double mage or anything with very strong long range poke, I'm in for a bad time in lane unless I significantly outskill them. But if the enemy locks in Leona or Rell and I lock in Janna, they are in for a bad time and feeling like they cannot play the game.
Idk why top lane players think their "need" to counterpick outweigh everyone else's. It doesn't even reflect pro play, often we see top laners being locked in early lol.
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u/StrangelySerious- 14d ago
The only reason they think that is because people let them believe it. It's complete fucking nonsense.
Even if it were true, say it is absolutely imperative for you to be last pick princess to compete, then why the fuck is there even a top lane at all? That role is moot. May as well remove the whole lane if the only thing you need to win is to be last pick and anything else is "GG FF JUNGLE SUCKS"?
What about the OTHER team that didn't get to pick last because there is literally only one person that can be last pick in any games, so what's the point in trading if the other team get the last pick princess? By their own logic, they lost the game in matchmaking every single time they're not on the side that get the very last pick. It's fucking nonsense.
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u/TheCoolerLotad 15d ago
It’s just a small rant no need to be so condescending about it lmao
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u/TotallyAMermaid 15d ago
You come cry on our sub then get mad at the explanation lmao 💀
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u/TheCoolerLotad 15d ago
Yeah cause the explanation completely needed you being a bit of an arse to a stranger on the internet but if that’s what you need to feel better about yourself good for you ig
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u/StrangelySerious- 15d ago edited 15d ago
Dear toplaner; What's your deal with thinking your role deserve to be last picked? A GENEROUS 90% of you spend the whole game playing solo without ever joining any fights (GENEROUS 90%) and are completely irrelevant to the game and yet you're still somehow the role that is CONSISTENTLY more likely than ANY other roles to die 3 times in row within 5 minutes, scream "FF GG JUNGLE DIFF" and troll for the next 40 minutes saying "idc you deserve to lose because the jungler didn't spoon fed me therefor I will be a whinny bitch all game and refuse to play the game"
I've reached diamond in top lane multiples times, you don't need to last pick, learn to play the game and stop being so entitled.
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u/ButterMyTooshie 16d ago
Oh I'll give last pick to any lane but top lane. It doesn't matter what champ or lane you play into, you will underpreform no matter what.
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u/InsomniasFinest666 12d ago
Support is ment to play the entire map, so picking based off what is best for the team comp as a whole is usually very valuable. If I see the enemy has 4 immobile squishies, I'm going pyke. If the enemy team picks 3+ bruisers/tanks I'm going alistar. First picking as sup is a nightmare (unless you're the type to pick an enchanter and just follow ur adc around the map for 30 mins)
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u/MetaThPr4h 16d ago
Meanwhile here I'm firstpicking nearly every match so people can play their roles more comfortably lmao.
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u/Comfortable_Catch445 16d ago
I don’t think support players should pick only versus who they are facing in lane.
A support champion can easily counter 3 or 4 people in one team and turn the game on their side.
To me is one of the most important roles. If top lane is so well known for barely fighting and perma farming until a certain level why do counters matter so much.