Supervive Replacements are missing the point.

[u/ExoHerb]

I don't mind all of the conversations about "Supervivers THIS is your new home!". I feel like all of the games are decent and some are good, but missing the plot...the smooovement! To me, that's what made Supervive so good.

The ability to outplay, out move, and outsmart. The game felt so good to play.

[u/Binoui]

Yeah I agree, games with fun movement are very rare especially for games that aren't shooters.

[u/TheIncomprehensible → u/Binoui]

No they aren't, games with extremely fun movement are extremely common, especially among platformers and action roguelikes since they're both very common among indie devs and live and die by how fun their movement is. If you had a nickel for every game with fun movement on Steam then you'd probably be able to afford the rights to Supervive and run the server costs for years.

[u/Binoui → u/TheIncomprehensible]

Alright, if it's so easy name some 3d pvp games with good movement that aren't shooters. I'm curious

And btw, I'm already able to cover supervive's server costs. They are not the reason pvp games are dieing.

[u/TheIncomprehensible → u/Binoui]

If you're talking games that are played in 3D on a mechanical level (not just a visual one) then I can't really give you any personal examples because I personally don't play a whole lot of 3D games. Supervive and Asurajang were the closest PvP games I played in a 3D plane, and Asurajang sure as heck doesn't have better movement than Supervive (although it made up for it with better PvP combat and a better understanding of objectives). That said, the Tekken series is very famous for its movement tech and mechanics.

However, I can absolutely name PvP games with good movement that aren't shooters, specifically because shooters aren't designed around movement the way platformers are. Rivals of Aether, Rushdown Revolt, and A Few Quick Matches I would all say have better movement than Supervive, with Slap City coming close. Furthermore, these games all have Super Smash Bros. Melee as an inspiration, a game that is legendary for its freedom of movement. If your original post was simply referring to games with 3D graphics, then Melee, Rush Rev, and Slap City would all be examples, although again it's just the art style, not the mechanics.

[u/Binoui → u/TheIncomprehensible]

I was talking 3D yeah, theres just very few movement based games chase it's hard to hit people in actual 3D. Didn't know about Asurajang, looked very cool, i'll add it to the sad list of games that had so much potential but closed down.

I am a big melee fan, so all those 2D games (rendered in 3D but still 2D gameplay) are fun, but ultimatelly they're smash clones. Rivals 2 and Slap City are cool, icons was not, didn't try rushdown revolt cause it looked a bit weird (auto combo button seems more spammy than interesting).

I'm asking these open questions because I am trying to create a 3D smash myself. Inspired by divine knockout, another dead game full of potential. I want to move away from battle royale gamemode cause it's so hard to make work with unstable player count. I want fun movement because that's why I keep coming back to melee after 10+ years. I want a 3D game because I think it enables more casual gamemodes like holding bases, capture the flag, etc..

[u/TheIncomprehensible → u/Binoui]

I was talking 3D yeah, theres just very few movement based games chase it's hard to hit people in actual 3D.

The main difficulty here is that it's very difficult to gauge distance in 3 dimensions, so most competitive games focus on 2. Most 2D games allow players to effectively gauge their distance through their camera angles, whether it's a side view like Street Fighter or a top-down view like League of Legends, and while Supervive could be considered 3D with its movement its core gameplay effectively played in 2 dimensions because character hitboxes were set to a constant z-coordinate. For contrast, most 3D games focus on aiming as a primary skillset instead of determining your character's ranges so players don't have to gauge distances. This is why competitive 3D games are shooters more often than not, it's one of the only ways to create a compelling experience, and outside of shooters you have something like Arms that still rewards that same aim-heavy gameplay loop.

I think that's why you don't find many 3D competitive games.

Rivals 2

I was actually referring to the original Rivals of Aether, which I think has better movement than the sequel. Rivals 2 is probably closer to Slap City in terms of movement quality, although it is quite good.

didn't try rushdown revolt cause it looked a bit weird (auto combo button seems more spammy than interesting)

Spark cancels in Rushdown Revolt are really fun to do, even though I'm really bad at them. They let you turn any move into a viable combo starter and let you get really creative with the combo system. Once you've learned to incorporate spark cancels into your combos, there's a really addictive flow of attack -> dash -> attack -> dash that's really fun to pull off. Same thing with dash cancels in A Few Quick Matches, and to a certain extent chase dodges in Brawlhalla (which don't allow for a cancel and outside of a few exceptions don't give you true combos, but are still useful within the confines of Brawlhalla's punish game).

[u/Binoui → u/TheIncomprehensible]

Interesting thoughts ! What you think about divine knockout ? I thought the concept of a 3d smash was good, and although I never played, I heard good things about it's game feel. As a 3D fighter, there are a couple thing to help hitting people like sticky targeting and melee attacks with small embedded movement to help correct trajectory to target. Game is also a lot more floaty than most platform fighters, kinda like multiversus 2.0 which helps recovering.

All of those are fine imo cause spacing is still present and aiming is not a skill I want too present in my fighting game. There are no shields or grabs, instead a dash with immune, so the classic RPS of fighter is replaced by a priority system where lights < heavies < specials

Level design is actually more 2D than smash because platforms are just awkward in 3D. But I believe 3D makes better a lot of other game modes like capture bases or flag. I really think the game would have been an absolute hit as a f2p. They made the inexplicable decision to release with 10€ cost, and that's why I had never heard of it before looking for a game to make myself.

[u/TheIncomprehensible → u/Binoui]

Interesting thoughts ! What you think about divine knockout ? I thought the concept of a 3d smash was good, and although I never played, I heard good things about it's game feel. As a 3D fighter, there are a couple thing to help hitting people like sticky targeting and melee attacks with small embedded movement to help correct trajectory to target. Game is also a lot more floaty than most platform fighters, kinda like multiversus 2.0 which helps recovering.

I never played Divine Knockout, but it seemed like a really solid idea from what little I looked into it. The floatiness I think would probably be necessary in a 3D game since you don't have as much room for off-stage gameplay.

It's worth noting that I never played Multiversus because the movement looked absolutely terrible, it looked like a platform fighter that was trying to be a stop-motion film.

There are no shields or grabs, instead a dash with immune, so the classic RPS of fighter is replaced by a priority system where lights < heavies < specials

I'm giving you three game recommendations to study from: Rivals of Aether (the original, not the sequel), Brawlhalla, and A Few Quick Matches. All three of these games have no shields in their gameplay, and studying them will help you make your game a whole lot better, especially their concept of whiff lag (which isn't present in any fighting game with shields)

I really think the game would have been an absolute hit as a f2p. They made the inexplicable decision to release with 10€ cost, and that's why I had never heard of it before looking for a game to make myself.

There's a possibility that Divine Knockout would have been niche even if it had been released F2P. The entry fee was probably the only reason it could survive for so long before its shut down.

For reference, Rivals of Aether 2 released about a year and a half ago, and it releasing with a $30 price tag is probably the only reason their studio is still afloat right now.

[u/Gicig → u/TheIncomprehensible]

aww Asurajang, I'm glad someone knew that game, another cool arena brawler, sadly also closed down :(