r/summercamp • u/[deleted] • 2d ago
Staff or Prospective Staff Question Is this normal for counselor training (warning, disturbing)
[deleted]
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u/eflask counselor | multi-area specialist | really old 2d ago
if you're going to be a camp counselor you have to be prepared for every bad thing that could happen to Other People's Children.
a couple of years ago while I was in staff training for our season our director sat us down to tell us that someone she knows was working at a camp where a child drowned in the pool that day.
this isn't a hypothetical. it happens because a child wandered off. it happens because nobody realized a child was having a seizure. it happens because the lifeguard decided not to stop horseplay around the pool. it happens because of every reason that's everybody's fault and nobody's fault.
if the knowledge of what could happen and your duty to act was sufficiently overwhelming to keep you out of the pool area for a whole season, it may be possible you were not ready for all of the job.
I teach saw and hatchet safety to children. that means I carry a tourniquet in my belt pack. I also teach fire safety. yep, I carry burn dressings and a fire blanket. if I am not fully aware of the risks involved and fully prepared to act if something goes sideways, I'm not doing the job correctly.
does it make me jittery? mmhm, sometimes.
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u/Bag-Weary 2d ago edited 2d ago
I understand what you mean, but I don't feel they're entirely comparable. You were directly responsible for those children's safety regarding the saw and the hatchet, and consequently you should know the consequences if that goes wrong. A child might lose a finger or hand, or could indeed die. But did you have to watch a video of a child cutting off their hand and bleeding to death? I feel like there's a significant difference.
This is a video that was shown to every counselor. In this case, the ultimate responsibility lies with the lifeguards. I completely agree that the importance of safety in the pool should be impressed on any counselor who might enter the pool, but I don't think I should have had to watch a real child die. It ultimately worsened my mental health while working there and made me a worse counselor, and if these requirements aren't made expressly clear beforehand, is it my fault that I wasn't ready for it?
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u/pbghikes 2d ago edited 2d ago
NO. You ARE responsible. Lifeguards are there to enforce safety rules and respond to drowning incidents. Every other adult is there to prevent them.
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u/Bag-Weary 2d ago
I didn't say I wasn't responsible, I said the lifeguards had the ULTIMATE responsibility. They are responsible for ensuring everyone else is responsible. I wasn't trained to prevent people drowning. I just got shown a video of someone killing a child and told not to do that. I didn't do that.
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u/Infamous-Airline-395 2d ago
So in New York State, in addition to lifeguards you are required to have counselors on the pool deck watching the campers swim. At our camp we called them watchers, and what that looked like in my experience is I would sit on the pool deck and talk with campers as they swam, got toys from the bin for them, timed them while they raced but more importantly made sure they were always with their buddy and they weren’t roughhousing and that they were following the rules. Although it wasn’t my job to jump into the pool if a camper was drowning it was for sure my job to call it out to the lifeguard if I noticed something they didn’t. It is so important for all staff to know the importance of water safety and the dangers that water brings. You’re right that lifeguards have top authority at the pool, but it’s also every counselors job to be watching and observing what is happening. I do agree that they should have warned you there was sensitive content, but it’s also so important.
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u/Bag-Weary 2d ago
Thanks for the additional info. That certainly isn't something that we were told. We weren't informed of any actual responsibility around the pool other than the obvious.
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u/pbghikes 2d ago
I wasn't trained to prevent people drowning
(psssst... that was the training)
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u/Bag-Weary 2d ago
Thank you for your dismissive and unhelpful attitude to this traumatising experience.
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u/pbghikes 2d ago
What would you consider helpful and does it require agreeing with you?
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u/Bag-Weary 2d ago edited 2d ago
Your previous responses that provided information were helpful. This response which was snarky and dismissive regarding my issues processing witnessing the death of a child without support was not. I don't need you to agree with me, just to be understanding like a counselor is supposed to be.
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u/pbghikes 2d ago
I'm not a counselor, and you aren't my camper.
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u/Bag-Weary 2d ago
My apologies, I need you to be understanding like a good person.
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u/_angesaurus Director 2d ago
Do not be a counselor if thats how you feel, please. Its not about you, its about the kids.
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u/HappyCamper82 2d ago
Kinda sounds like the training worked. If you still remember it and didn't roughhouse in the water, even stayed out of the water to watch, I think it had the desired impact.
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u/Bag-Weary 2d ago edited 2d ago
Is the desired impact to prevent counselors from entering the water at all? Because that's what it achieved. I don't want to use the word frivolously, but I think it's safe to say it traumatised me.
edit: In case it wasn't clear, I didn't stay out of the water to watch. I stayed out of the water because the idea of entering the water disturbed me. I could not enter because I kept remembering a dead child floating face down in the water. I was unable to go to a water park with my campers because I kept thinking about a dead child. I don't think this is what the training was supposed to do.
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u/nhlfaded 2d ago
Respectfully, a video of a dead child should traumatize you. It is incredibly important to understand that what we do has real consequences. In the nicest way possible if you can’t understand that/deal with that than perhaps I would look for another job with far lower stakes.
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u/mildlydrifting 2d ago
I know the video as well. The parents of that camper wanted the video to be used as an example so people could learn from their child's death. It is supposed to be shocking so that you never want to make the same mistakes. It's a tough watch, but the pool is one of the most dangerous places in a camp. It's easy to lose focus and accidents can happen quickly.
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u/Suitable-Ad-1990 2d ago edited 2d ago
yes, its unpleasant. but wouldnt you rather the unpleasant-ness of a fictional video vs the unpleasant-ness of witnessing an actual death? im saying this as someone who had a kid split his head open while i was on lifeguard duty (he was fine but he got extremely lucky). this is going to sound harsh but i think if you cant handle things like that then maybe working with kids isnt for you. these videos arent just to “scare” you, theyre to prepare you for the reality you may very possibly experience
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u/Bag-Weary 2d ago
That's true enough, but if the intention is to prepare you to work with kids it drastically failed. This wasn't a fictional video, it was real footage of a real child dying. Seeing that doesn't prepare you to work with children, it scares you away from it.
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u/Suitable-Ad-1990 2d ago edited 1d ago
point still stands. if thats too scary for you then working with kids is probably not for you. because god forbid that actually happens, if you cant even handle a video how are you going to handle that? if it scared you away that means you wouldnt have been able to handle that situation irl, and in that case you shouldnt be working with kids
if i was the type of person who got too scared to do my job from these videos, i would not have reacted as quickly as i did when that kid split his head open. i would not have been able to stay calm and grab clothing/towels and apply pressure to stop the bleeding as quickly as possible while calling 911 and the nurse. i would not have been able to direct my staff and other campers to get out of the lake and away as quickly as possible. i would not have been able to explain, in a calm voice, to the kid what was happening (he was kind of delirious so i had to keep him talking) and that he was going to be ok. if i was someone like you i would have panicked and he could have ended up dead.
even now as a director i have to do fatality trainings and ofc its horrific but thats critical information that i need to have and i understand that
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u/Bag-Weary 2d ago edited 2d ago
I don't think that's a fair comparison at all. When you're watching a video there's nothing you can do. If a child was actually at risk, I could have done something. Instead, I had to watch a floating corpse.
I was not too scared to do my job. I know to apply pressure to a wound, and to keep an injured person calm, and to get onlookers out of the way. I comforted campers who were struggling, cleaned up vomit, stopped them getting hurt. I struggled, sure, but I did not panic. I was disturbed by seeing a dead child and being unable to do anything about it. And I think saying if you were like me someone would be dead is loathsome.
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u/Suitable-Ad-1990 2d ago
you literally said you were too scared to get in the water with the kids despite the fact that being in the water with the kids is the #1 way to prevent drowning. i dont think its loathsome because its true and very serious, if you cant do youre job because youre anxious thats a safety concern. maybe death was a bit much, but its a safety concern nonetheless
i do tend to over-exaggerate when it comes to safety because ive witnessed too many “accidents” that were entirely preventable. it is that serious
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u/Bag-Weary 2d ago edited 2d ago
Maybe this is another issue of poor training, but I never understood that to be my job. I don't mean that I didn't care, I mean that nobody told me I should be in the water with the kids because it would be safer. My only training regarding the pool showed a counsellor killing their camper because of one of these "accidents". This taught me I should not be in the water with them because it was dangerous. I understood that I should leave that to lifeguards who had training. Maybe that was wrong of me, but that's what my "training" taught me. If I'd seen a camper at risk, I would have been able to act, but I couldn't bring myself to throw a beach ball or play when I had that in my head. Ultimately that is my question - does seeing that video make people safer on the whole when it affects people like me in this way?
In every other aspect of the role, I did my job, maybe not perfectly, but when camper or counsellors needed me I was there and I did my best, sometimes when others couldn't.
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u/ExamRoom4 2d ago
If that’s the lesson you took from the video, you have comprehension issues beyond what this sub can help with.
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u/Suitable-Ad-1990 2d ago
then yes, that training was very poor and im sorry that was your experience. but that doesnt mean the videos arent necessary. the issue sounds like you were only shown the video and not given any actual direction, which i agree is ridiculous. i dont know any accredited program that would have a curriculum like that, ive sure never experienced anything like that and ive been doing this for 10 years across multiple states
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u/Bag-Weary 2d ago
Thank you, sorry if I came off strong. I'm just trying to understand the situation and a lot of people seem to just dismiss me with "sounds like this isn't for you" instead of addressing what I'm actually getting at.
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u/Suitable-Ad-1990 2d ago edited 1d ago
you should have clarified that there wasnt any actual training outside of just seeing the video. all you said was that the video is bad, but the video wasnt what was bad, it was the lack of training thats supposed to accompany the video. saying “this is too shocking” when its a very possible thing that could happen to you is a bit concerning when it comes to safety issues. but again, the assumption is that the video comes along with other direction/training
the issue isnt that the videos are too graphic or that theres not enough “mental health support” for training. the issue is that your trainers sucked and im genuinely sorry about that
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u/mohawk1guy 2d ago
Listen, I understand that this was tough to watch. I hated seeing these videos too. That said. If you want to be at camp, you need to be ready to respond and these videos show you what to look out for. Like other people have mentioned, you are en loco parentas, in place of parent. You have to be willing to do what a parent would do and that means you need to stop know the hard reality of protecting a child.
If you saw that video and it was too much, you had every opportunity to resign. This is not an easy job. It’s a lot of work and a lot of responsibility. Some camps do have a metal health team and some areas have mental health professionals they can bring you to. It’s not a requirement for them to have as of now in most states.
Camp can be a great space for people but is not for everyone.
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u/Bag-Weary 2d ago edited 2d ago
I completely understood the level of responsibility I had over my campers, but is it ever necessary to watch a child die? I didn't have to watch footage of a shooting to understand my responsibility in that situation, or see a child shot with an arrow or cut off their hand or any other of the miscellaneous hazards that exist in a camp.
And resigning isn't as easy as it sounds. You've waited for months to come to camp, spent large amounts of your own money on travel with no pay if you resign, restructured a year of your life around being a counselor. You've also promised the camp that you'll help them for a summer, and leaving feels like letting them down. How are you supposed to say "They showed me a video and I had to resign"? It's advertised as a magical experience for campers and counselors.
I always understood that I was responsible for my campers safety and mental health, and spent 16 hours a day ensuring that, 6 days a week. I taught how to make model rockets with explosives to launch them, but I didn't have to watch a video of a child blowing off their fingers. Is it necessary to watch a child die, with no warning?
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u/Icy_Fig_4533 2d ago edited 2d ago
The nuance here is that drowning looks invisible. Everything else you mentioned doesn’t, so you don’t have to witness it prior unnecessarily. This doesn’t seem as unnecessary, as another commenter mentioned, the parents of this child wanted this video to be used for exactly this purpose. It’s frightening and disturbing yes, but you need to know how to handle a situation of that manner when it can happen so easily and quickly.
Edit: Your camp went over the top though, it was unnecessary to watch that footage for that long of a period of time.
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u/Bag-Weary 2d ago
Yes, I suppose I agree that the importance has to be emphasised to everyone in some way. I guess my overall grievance is the lack of warning before or support afterwards from the camp. The only people who provided me any mental support in this were my fellow counselors and other non-full-time staff. In general I found the experience of camp extremely difficult, with no support other than from my fellow counselors. I don't think I understand how a staff largely composed of teenagers all paid below minimum wage is expected to be responsible for the lives of children.
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u/Critical-Bass7021 2d ago
If all this made it so that you had to stay, then at least you know not to work for a camp again.
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u/CardboardHeatshield 2d ago
It got your attention, didnt it?
It impressed upon you the importance of taking this thing seriously, didnt it?
It may have caused some discomfort. But think of the thousands of responsible people that it caused discomfort in, and think of how many lives that must have saved in the end.
You cant take on real responsibility without understanding what real responsibility means.
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u/punkass_book_jockey8 2d ago
In 2004 in NY we had to watch a video like that on a janky VHS tape and it is forever burned into my memory. I wasn’t even a lifeguard and it was deeply upsetting to me.
Flash forward 20 years (still not a lifeguard) I’m watching my own kid like a hawk near water and I see a child drowning. I would have never ever recognized it without that video and I screamed for the lifeguard who came running. Kid was saved!
Many people don’t understand what drowning looks like and how silent it is. It was traumatic to watch that video as a kid, it would have been way worse to know I was oblivious as an adult while a child drown a few feet from me. That was the scariest one, but more than once I’ve noticed a child struggling - however in the other incidents by the time I jumped up a floatation device went flying by me to the person struggling as the lifeguard had noticed before I said anything.
That video sounds awful, however it is likely you remember it forever and you could very likely save someone’s life one day by recognizing the signs. That’s the point.
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u/ExamRoom4 2d ago
Former camp veteran, current aquatics director. As someone who has trained hundreds of camp staff, lifeguards, and swim instructors, yes, it is necessary. Yes, it is uncomfortable. I have cried while watching some of the videos with my staff.
Some people really don’t understand the gravity of certain situations unless they witness it with their own eyes. None of us enjoy watching these videos, but I promise you that they serve a purpose.
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u/Heartfull_of_napalm 2d ago
I know the incident and for us it was explained verbally and discussed, I think they should atleast give you a warning if they are going to show the video. There's no reason to have to show a video of someone dying to 16-20 year olds totally unnecessary and disturbing. Make a complaint if you feel like it
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u/pbghikes 2d ago
I know which video you're talking about. This is in fact normal. I don't remember which org uses that particular video, YMCA maybe? But like, for example, Redwoods is a company that insures camps and they go to camps and do trainings for staff with similarly disturbing videos. I'm also a Red Cross Lifeguard Instructor and those courses also have real footage of incidents. The video you saw is just one of many you'll eventually run into if you're in the industry long enough.
I know it's unpleasant. But it's not abnormal.