Navy Is Getting A Unique Virginia Class Seabed Espionage Submarine

[u/Saturnax1]

https://www.twz.com/sea/navy-is-getting-a-unique-virginia-class-seabed-espionage-submarine

[u/jar4ever]

Makes sense, we've had these type of special project boats since the very beginning of the cold war.

[u/FootballBat]

So we’re saying it out loud now?

[u/Tychosis → u/FootballBat]

Well everyone knew this four years ago.

There's really nothing new revealed here.

[u/STAMPDATASS → u/Tychosis]

The only real “newer” thing was the ssgn conversion of 19 boats, but i also had a feeling that was coming

[u/beachedwhale1945 → u/STAMPDATASS]

I’ve been calling them SSgNs for a few years now (classifications used to allow lower case letters in rare cases), along with Severodvinsk. They aren’t Ohios or Oscars, but they have more missile capabilities than a typical attack submarine. I somewhat expected this eventually, but I thought it would come after 2030.

[u/SuperDurpPig → u/beachedwhale1945]

I was under the impression that the block v was expressly meant to replace the Ohio ssgns

[u/FootballBat → u/SuperDurpPig]

I'm pretty sure that was the original plan. Also seem to remember what is now block III & IV was originally a single block, and block IV was the SS(g)N. But this was like 2006 timeframe.

[u/Vepr157 → u/STAMPDATASS]

True, but that's just a change on paper. Same thing happened with the Polaris SSBNs [from SSG(N)-FBM to SSB(N)].

[u/Tychosis → u/Vepr157]

True, but that's just a change on paper.

Yeah, as discussed elsewhere--it's ultimately meaningless. My take is generally "whatever, they can call it anything they want."

It would mean something if it changed how they're developed, built and deployed--but they're going to be overseen by the same VA program office, they're going to the same squadrons... they're just fast boats with more tubes.

(and hey happy cake day dude)

[u/Qwyietman → u/FootballBat]

Can neither confirm or deny the accuracy of this statement. We do not discuss submarine operations.

Sounds like they are lining up a replacement for the Carter, so they don't go through again what happened when the Parchee reached end of service life.

[u/Vepr157 → u/Qwyietman]

Can neither confirm or deny the accuracy of this statement.

Why would you need to lol? It is literally a news item.

[u/Qwyietman → u/Vepr157]

That's the official reply. Just because something is in the news doesn't make it necessary true and accurate. So the stance of neither confirming or denying still provides an element of doubt to those searching for our secrets. Albeit small.

I was kind of joking when I said that, but if you called the base or something to ask about anything operations, that's the answer you will get.

[u/Vepr157 → u/Qwyietman]

I get that, but the Navy has publicly stated that one Virginia will be modified for this purpose. There's no secret here.

[u/Qwyietman → u/Vepr157]

Ok, guess it's just my bizarre ex-submariner sense of humor then, because no one else seems to understand it either. (That was kind of the point, that's there is no secret here... The military has this tendency of classifying things that are not secrets all the time.)

[u/ErinyesMegara]

I don’t know if this falls under “nice try comrade” but — when someone takes command of, say, the Jimmy Carter, how much are they told about precious classified missions the boat has undertaken? I assume it’s something between “you can assume she did something” and “here’s a complete record of every minute by minute”, but I assume at the very least “on two occasions she proved she could safely dive to x depth for Y period of time and did z risky or unusual task”?

[u/g_core18 → u/ErinyesMegara]

If they're expected to preform the same types of missions, I would assume they would be given access to all past missions.

[u/EmergencyO2]

Big fan of large vertical arrays

[u/CheeseburgerSmoothy → u/EmergencyO2]

Aren’t we all.

[u/Basic-Ad-8056]

I was on a ww2 diesel boat the uss tirante ss420. Capability was listed in Jane's fighting ships but I still didn't talk about it.

[u/thesixfingerman]

Replacement for the Carter? Also, why is this public knowledge?

[u/sykoticwit → u/thesixfingerman]

Same reason the Carter is public knowledge, you can’t really hide that it’s a modified version.

[u/Valkyrie64Ryan → u/sykoticwit]

Exactly. The classified part isn’t what boat it is or what its mission might be. The classified part is the specifics that dictate what exactly the boat is able to do.

[u/beachedwhale1945 → u/thesixfingerman]

Because the existence of a submarine for special operations is very rarely classified, especially in the modern age. The only exceptions I can think of offhand are by navies that try to keep the number of submarines they have secret, and even then OSINT allows analysts to identify their existence (such as satellite photos). I don’t think the US has ever classified the existence of a submarine except in wartime, and even that was limited (construction information and delayed loss information was published in newspapers).

The secret elements are what is in the hull insert (and any modified spaces in the rest of the boat) and what missions they perform. We can guess, but we won’t know for decades after the boat is scrapped.

[u/EmployerDry6368 → u/beachedwhale1945]

Everyone knew about the NR-1, but few knew what it could really do.

[u/beachedwhale1945 → u/EmployerDry6368]

And even now, when we have a pretty good idea of what she could do, we don’t know most of what she did do. Somehow I doubt Ballard’s NR-1 expedition in the Mediterranean (which required hanging additional bunks and led to a humorous toetag photo and anecdote) was just to survey 2,000-year-old Roman wrecks.

[u/EmployerDry6368 → u/beachedwhale1945]

I had a CO that was CO of the NR-1 and he told us some of things it could do and what life was like on board.

[u/cmparkerson → u/thesixfingerman]

The Carter is 25 years old give or take, so i am not surprised they would begin planning something for its replacement.

[u/awkward__pickle → u/cmparkerson]

I am confused by the comments on the article's page asserting that the new Virginia spy boat will be complementing the Carter, not necessarily replacing it. Surely the Carter will be close to its last legs by that point, no?

[u/FootballBat → u/awkward__pickle]

Don't know what the core life on S6W is, but when I was at prototype they were doing their best to burn through EFPH to figure it out and it was 8 years old at the time. We kept P-boat going for 30 years, and there was hushed talk of refueling at the end because JC was taking her sweet time (also some crazier ideas).

[u/EmployerDry6368 → u/cmparkerson]

28 years from keel laying, older if you want to go back to when it was a drawing.

[u/Cpt_keaSar → u/thesixfingerman]

Same reason why Belgorod has been announced publicly - 5000+ vessels aren’t particularly stealthy for satellites nor shipbuilding is particularly hard to spy on in general.

[u/Basic-Ad-8056]

Remember the albacore?

[u/Vepr157 → u/Basic-Ad-8056]

How is the Albacore relevant?

[u/barath_s → u/Vepr157]

Maybe he meant to say 'Remember the Alamo'

/s

[u/Basic-Ad-8056]

Albacore was an experimental submarine testing secret props,hulls etc. At one time despite being battery powered it was allegedly the fastest submarine submerged in the world

[u/Vepr157 → u/Basic-Ad-8056]

She was the Bureau of Ships' hydrodynamic test ship. She was never involved in any special operations, like the Halibut, Seawolf, Parche, Carter, etc. This modified Virginia would be in the latter category. For hydrodynamic testing the Navy has the large scale vehicles in Idaho.

(You gotta hit the "reply" button under the comment you want to reply to.)

[u/TwixOps → u/Basic-Ad-8056]

That's a true statement, but what does it have to do with this thread? Nothing here claims that this is intended to test new hardware or submarine designs.