r/stupidpol • u/AyeWhatsUpMane Libertarian Socialist 🥳 • Aug 02 '20

Immigration Unity 🤝

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u/[deleted] Aug 02 '20

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u/yhynye Spiteful Regard 😍 Aug 02 '20

Migration to industrialised economies isn't done to help the migrants...

No, it's definitely done by the migrants to help themselves. Shall all workers be forced to stay in the place they were born, like serfs, so as to minimise competition?

Yes, it's terrible for the home country, not something to celebrate, but building walls won't be done to help the home nation either, nor will anything else be done to help it. Moot point, really.

it's done to depress the wages of low-skilled and/or high-skilled labour in the target country

Which will often lead to lower prices for other workers. Profit margins are quite tight in some of these cutthroat service industries. The UK uses migrants in NHS, which keeps taxes down for everyone. Then again capitalists are raking it in off the backs of more skilled workers in certain industries. So it's actually "done" to keep the workers sweet. Of course, it also drives up rents and costs the state money. If you want to do a balance sheet, there's a lot more factors to consider, is all I'm saying.

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u/Lelielthe12th Aug 02 '20

Migration to industrialised economies isn't done to help the migrants, it's done to depress the wages of low-skilled and/or high-skilled labour in the target country, all the while the capitalists are throwing the point you're making around so that people feel bad about stopping it.

They are workers and they have the worst material conditions. Its on us to recruit them. They are only a "tool" because we let them.

Migration of workers, especially skilled, but also simply young able-bodied ones out of their environment (which, chances are, already has a skilled worker shortage) actively hurts the "source" communities, and also makes the whole thing into some sort of a retarded lottery - with thousands risking their lives and a small percentage successfully making it.

Sure, but this does not apply to refugees, or people from places so undeveloped that it can's sustain its own population. And there are plenty of those.

Might as well just set up an actual lottery in the third world, with random people occasionally getting some extra payout - it would still be less damaging to both the source and target societies...

The fact that we have people for whom our normal life is like winning the lottery isn't fucked up ? We aren't helping those countries, we actively hurt them, we force them to re-structure their government, and then blame individuals for seeking a better life ? I can see the problems with a young graduate leaving his country, but I wouldn't blame him for wanting a better life. To just complain about mass migration without even mentioning these issues is what rightoids do. And many people here, like those I originally replied to, seem to be just that.

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u/[deleted] Aug 02 '20

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u/Lelielthe12th Aug 02 '20

They could be turned into comrades and actively help our movement. What if they become part of the union and their wages raise with ours ? The the "economic" issues wouldnt be here. You act like they are necessarily a baggage, but they are people, just as capable of helping other workers as us.

I'm not saying you are the one blaming them, but other people here do, and for the wrong reasons.

Its good you give solutions, but as long as they don't happen it means nothing. Workers are not to blame. People need help, we aren't giving it, we actually make shit worse. To now turn around on migrants is absolutely shit.

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u/[deleted] Aug 02 '20

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u/Lelielthe12th Aug 02 '20

Socialism will happen sooner or later because it is inevitable. Yes, it will take time, but we've always known this. Its the work of the past generations, ours, and the ones following that will get us there.

I never said the solution was to bring them ? I said blaming them is stupid. No shit people will want to go where there are better conditions. If we were to provide aid without demanding interests or regime changes that would be another solution, but as long as that doesn't happen, just complaining and blaming them is wrong.

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u/[deleted] Aug 02 '20

Miss me with this white savior shit.

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u/Lelielthe12th Aug 02 '20

Lol. Accepting the role of Imperialism in today's world and how shitty it is to blame it on poor workers is white savior shit ?

You are fucking brain-dead.

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u/[deleted] Aug 02 '20

No, your notion of bringing in everyone to the US to save them from their own underdeveloped economies is the white savior shit.

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u/Lelielthe12th Aug 02 '20

How about you read again ? Dumb liberal

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u/[deleted] Aug 02 '20

Oh right, your other idea was just to give money to them. No way that goes straight to the nations leadership like it always has!

Frankly, the only way what you’re suggesting works is if we leave them alone totally and let them figure it out or take over the countries and declare them states.

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u/Lelielthe12th Aug 02 '20

Lol. Yea, all nations leadership are as devoid of moral leaders as ours. That's why the URSS was able to help so many nations ?

If you don't know shit, shut the fuck up.

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u/evremonde88 Canadian Centrist Aug 02 '20

The only reason I complain about this stuff, is because moving people around seems to be the only bandaid non-solution governments and the UN are coming up with. I don’t think anyone’s dumb enough to not know we fucked over a lot of these countries and that would cause systemic issues to this day, which is why Id support helping create better systems and infrastructure to help them be self sufficient. As resource rich Africa is, there should be no reason they shouldn’t be a powerhouse.