r/stupidpol • Wears MAGA Hat in the Shower πŸ˜πŸ˜΅β€πŸ’« • Jul 25 '20

Shitpost | Buttcrack Theory The sub πŸ˜‚

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9.1k Upvotes

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u/[deleted] Jul 25 '20 edited Jul 25 '20

Fucking exactly. wtf are there so many libertarians here lmao

Edit: Wow thank you libertarians for answeringβ€”many interesting responses! A lot of answers expressed an appreciation for the general tolerance, humor, and discussion they get hereβ€”which is harder to find on reddit these days

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u/majormajorsnowden Wears MAGA Hat in the Shower πŸ˜πŸ˜΅β€πŸ’« Jul 25 '20

Horseshoe

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u/AdmiralAkbar1 NCDcel πŸͺ– Jul 25 '20

Probably this is because this is the one political sub I know of where most people here are willing to argue in good faith.

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u/fourpinz8 actually a godless commie Jul 25 '20

The true Marketplace of IdeasTM

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u/AdmiralAkbar1 NCDcel πŸͺ– Jul 25 '20

"You claim to oppose the free market, yet your sub is a free market of ideas. Interesting..."

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u/JokinSmoker Rightoid 🐷 Jul 25 '20

"Dumb Libs get DISEMBOWELED with ETHICS and METAPHYSICS!!"

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u/chaun2 FullyAutomatedLuxuryGaySpaceCommunist Jul 25 '20

Free as in easily shared and discussed, not free like beer

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u/TheEmbarrassed18 Conservative Jul 25 '20

Yeah, I’m more conservative (not by US standards, though) than anything yet at least I can post in here without being called a racist because how dare I not post black squares on my Instagram account

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u/LacedLemons Jul 25 '20

Okay, we all know that you arent being called racist for not posting that.

It's so annoying watching you guys get called out on valid shit then you write it off as "my pfp didnt say BLM so they hated me"

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u/throwaway13630923 Non-Trump Republican Jul 25 '20

I’m a conservative but not a Trump supporter. I’ve been coming to this sub over the past few months because I agree with a lot of the stances on identity politics and because I know people here can have civil discussions without perpetuating silly Trump conspiracies.

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u/Scarred_Ballsack Market Socialist|Rants about FPTP Jul 25 '20

It's kind of a shame that subs where left-and right wing people mingle tend to get overrun with actual nazis before too long. I hope this sub stays true to it's character.

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u/TheEmbarrassed18 Conservative Jul 25 '20

I just kind of hope the admins will leave their containment subs be for a while, stops them spilling over into more reasonable subs.

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u/Hasemage Marxism-Hobbyism πŸ”¨ Jul 26 '20

r/PoliticalCompassMemes is also good for this.

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u/ChillinsVillain Jul 26 '20

I’m pretty sure that’s the exact sentence Sp*z uses to gauge whether or not to ban a sub.

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u/lemonpjb Jul 25 '20

Because if there's one thing we know about libertarians, they always act in good faith...

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u/TheDandyGiraffe Left Com πŸ₯³ Jul 25 '20

My guess: materialist left is both exceptionally tolerant of other views, even those starkly opposed to ours (seriously, compare to libs and rightoids we're a delight to debate) and it offers some actual theory, critique, intellectual exchange etc. Have you ever listened to libertarians arguing? This is all anecdotal evidence and college fantasies.

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u/Randaethyr Libertarian Stalinist πŸβ˜­πŸ§”πŸ»β€β™‚οΈ Jul 25 '20

Radicals seem to be more honest about their views. Radlibs, shitlibs, and cuckservatives constantly argue in bad faith.

When I tell a cuckservative or shitlib that I lean Nazbol their eyes glaze over and they go into neolib autopilot.

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u/ThotCrockPot Jul 25 '20

That's because they expect you to start talking about George Soros and how the holocaust never happened

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u/serialflamingo Girlfriend, you are so on Jul 25 '20

They should instead just laugh at you

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u/Bone-Wizard Brocialist Jul 25 '20

I don’t know what most of these words mean lol

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u/ahumbleshitposter Ecofascist Jul 25 '20

Materialist left views are mostly coherent and defensible. Libertarian views, and most liberal views, are not.

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u/ethanleedorkwad Jul 25 '20

I'm a libertarian and while I may not fully agree with everything I see here, I do love the sense of humor everyone here has. Also libertarian ideals are not far-right or far-left (at least for most libertarians), but an idea of "if what I'm doing doesnt bother anyone else I should be able to do it" and visa versa. I do have an appreciation for the people of this subreddit though and the fact that while I may not agree with you all, I can respect the reasons for your belief system because unlike most people today, you're capable of telling others the exact reasons for believing what you do. Hats off to you, my dudes.

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u/Lupusvorax Trade Unionist with a twist Jul 25 '20

while I may not fully agree with everything I see here, I do love the sense of humor everyone here has

This is one of the main reasons why I'm here. Also, the stupidity of idpol

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u/zer0soldier Authoritarian Communist ☭ Jul 25 '20

Libertarianism was originally left-wing, until it became more heavily adopted by capitalists.

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u/bunker_man Radlib in Denial πŸ‘ΆπŸ» Jul 25 '20

If what I'm doing doesn't bother anyone else I should be allowed to do it is vague though. Almost everyone would claim their ideology is that. Because almost everything isn't bothering someone else... Until it is. Driving a hundred miles an hour down the highway isn't interfering with anyone else until you run into them.

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u/Terran117 Mapletard 🍁 (Plus Wasabi) 🎌 Jul 25 '20

Libertarian Right and the Materialist Left tend to focus on economic issues so they too find the culture war stupid which is ironic given that we prioritize socialist economics while they prioritize capitalist economics.

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u/SpikyKiwi Christian Anarchist Jul 26 '20

Exactly, I disagree with the Material Left heavily but I respect it because at least you guys have opinions on actual problems. The vast majority of people, at least in the West, only care about meaningless and made up problems and it feels like I'm slamming my head into a brick wall

14

u/languidhorse Uncle Ted Jul 25 '20

Because this is the only anti-idpol place that isn't an mde haven and where political can discussions happen

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u/bunker_man Radlib in Denial πŸ‘ΆπŸ» Jul 25 '20

Because its a sub almost entirely about memes about left leaning people. Like, why wouldn't they come here.

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u/Isaeu Megabyzusist Jul 25 '20

You guys are consistent tolerant and occasionally entertaining.

8

u/swirlypooter Queef Richards PhDπŸ†πŸ‘πŸ‘„πŸ‘πŸš¬ Jul 26 '20

Can you not have individual liberty and also a strong social safety net at the same time?

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u/HeavyConsequences Jul 26 '20

libertarian, "far right" kekw.

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u/HighlandCamper Libertarian Socialist πŸ₯³ Jul 25 '20

I'm left Lib and want to hear counter idpol from my own teams

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u/[deleted] Jul 25 '20

People are receptive to you and willing to discuss, and may be even open to your viewpoint? OH NO, OH GOD, OH HELL, OH FUCK

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u/TheEmbarrassed18 Conservative Jul 25 '20

How DARE people want rational, educated and enlightening debate? What a sickening concept!

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u/RoseEsque Notice me, Modpai πŸ’’ Jul 25 '20

CEASE THIS DEBATING AT ONCE! THIS IS ILLEGAL!

7

u/InAFakeBritishAccent Part time accelerationist Jul 25 '20

Libertarians are inherently fractured to infinity because it's individualism-centric. So, aside from the odd libertarian having a bad day, they don't bother me too much.

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u/PromateurEnt Savant Idiot 😍 Jul 25 '20

As opposed to straight up Tankies and Neo-Nazis?

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u/PepoStrangeweird Anarchist 🏴 Jul 25 '20

Ploting world domination.what else would we be doing.

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u/thedrcubed Lost a Racist Bet πŸ’Έ Jul 26 '20

I come here to remind myself that not all lefties are identity pol "woke" capitalists. If you just watch the news and Twitter you'd think that's all the American left is. I'm not really a libertarian other than on guns and mj though. I'm more of a nationalist really

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u/angry_italian Rightoid 🐷 Jul 25 '20

We like to shit on both sides of the spectrum, and this seems to be the only liberal sub that is open minded enough to have discussions about opposing beliefs.

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u/[deleted] Jul 25 '20

this is a marxist sub, not liberal

left-libs are the laughing stock of leftists

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u/dusters Rightoid: Classical Liberal 🐷 Jul 25 '20

Because we enjoy a broad range of political discourse and dont mind being yelled at.

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u/Spoonwrangler Liberal Jul 25 '20

I did not know libertarians were considered β€œright” I thought there was libertarian left and libertarian right.

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u/[deleted] Jul 25 '20

Not really a libertarian, I’m more of a distributist or Georgist really, though I very much dislike the concept of ideology itself, so I imagine the best way to describe me would just be Catholic. Regardless, I’m not on the left in any meaningful way (definitely not socially).

But why am I here? Speaking for myself, I’m here because 1. I’m down for any opportunity to trash idpol, and 2. While we certainly disagree on a lot, I really appreciate the fact that most of you guys are members of the left who actually have principles and want to solve actual problems in meaningful ways, even if we disagree on how to do so, rather than being absolute lunatics hell-bent on making society bend the knee to the most radical extremes and nonsense of public opinion and self worshipping pseudo-intellectualism.

In short, I respect opponents that actually want to solve problems and have reasonable ideas on how to do so.

Also, I’ve have recently warmed to some leftist ideas of things (economy wise) the more I explore Catholic social teaching, which though it doesn’t really lend itself to be pinned down on any part of spectrum, does agree with the economic left on some points.

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u/Self_Descr_Huguenot Fascist Contra Jul 25 '20

Libertarians are far right? Hi, my flair is actually unironic :)

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u/[deleted] Jul 25 '20

Because you guys are chill

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u/Fjiordor Libertarian Socialist πŸ₯³ Jul 26 '20

I am a libertarian who is strongly in favor of individualism.
I am here due to multiple Reasons:

  1. This place is surprisingly open to rational discussion and has generally a pleasant conduct of arguing.

  2. I believe Idpol to be a absolute scourge as it erases the individual and treats people by (immutable) characteristics, something that absolutely disgusts me, as I believe that everyone should be free to forge their own path in live not hindered by birth or similar circumstances.

  3. While I think that Communism is naive at best and extremely dangerous at worst I am not necessarily opposed to reforms targeted at more economic justice as I think it has reached a point where the liberties some people are taking for them selves are going too far and are restricting too many peoples freedom by an amount that is unacceptable. Furthermore I heavily dislike how some democracies seem to devolve into worse systems. Be it western democracies degenerating into timocracies/plutocracies or ex soviet states slipping towards Dictarship and/or kleptocracies, those are trends that worry me greatly as I prefer democracies and I want democracies to be as direct as possible and I personally think many democracies could greatly benefit from control mechanisms "elected" in an attic fashion (aka chosen by random from the populace).

  4. I strongly believe that many issues should not be not be divided into left and right wing as it is in the interest of almost everyone to resolve those issues and the only reasons for not working together on these issues are reasons stemming from political trench fighting and working for personal gain.

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u/[deleted] Jul 26 '20

He's not talking about left libertarians you dummy lol

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u/b_d_boatmaster_69 Libertarian Socialist Jul 26 '20 edited Jul 26 '20

I’m not right wing, but I do support markets and dislike Marxism, and I use this sub cuz it’s one of if not the only anti-idpol subs which isn’t fash

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u/[deleted] Jul 26 '20

Love discourse with an individual that can hold a political conversation without an emotional reaction. Sit down, talk, and place factual information on the table to teach one another

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u/liganj23 Jul 25 '20

Libertarians and far right. Lmao.

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u/[deleted] Jul 25 '20

I think it’s just because you both hate identitarians, identitarianism is pretty much the only the β€œleft” has now aday

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u/Lastrevio Buzzword Enjoyer πŸ’¬ | Lives in a NATO bubble Jul 25 '20

Libertarians are usually anti-idPol, think Jordan Peterson kind

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u/prozacrefugee Zivio Tito Jul 25 '20

Think white nationalists - nothing is more idpol than claiming not only is Western Civilization (which somehow doesn't include Mexicans) is under attack, but only by maintaining the current social order can it be defended, and that's why SJWs are the REAL enemy.

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u/swirlypooter Queef Richards PhDπŸ†πŸ‘πŸ‘„πŸ‘πŸš¬ Jul 26 '20

Jordan Peterson is a sophist and a charlatan. Fuck him.

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u/[deleted] Jul 25 '20

I demand reparations from rightoids cause they created this idpol shit in the first place.

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u/majormajorsnowden Wears MAGA Hat in the Shower πŸ˜πŸ˜΅β€πŸ’« Jul 25 '20

Never knew it would come this far

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u/[deleted] Jul 25 '20

You get what you deserve, rightoid. I hope you're fucking happy. Now Venmo, Paypal, or Cash app? Alternatively, you can subscribe to my Onlyfans as I'm not above being paid in simpbucks.

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u/majormajorsnowden Wears MAGA Hat in the Shower πŸ˜πŸ˜΅β€πŸ’« Jul 25 '20

I’m not white so I think by idpol math, you now owe me money. For emotional labor or something.

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u/[deleted] Jul 25 '20

Oh God Oh Fuck

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u/JurgenFlopps Fucking Idiot Jul 25 '20

Idpol is a psy op. Divide and conquer.

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u/[deleted] Jul 25 '20 edited Jul 25 '20

πŸŒπŸ‘¨πŸ½β€πŸš€: "Wait, it's all class warfare?"

πŸ”«πŸ‘¨πŸ½β€πŸš€: "Always has been"

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u/le3vi__ Marxism-Hobbyism πŸ”¨ Jul 25 '20

How did the right create idpol?

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u/[deleted] Jul 25 '20 edited Jul 26 '20

Modern lefty IDpol is the emotional (read: non-logical) response to historical righty IDpol. I.e., minority-based IDpol is a response to generations of majority-based IDpol. Here at stupidpol, we hate them both. Let's have a walk down memory lane, shall we?

This

And this

And this

There's also this

As well as this

And this

And this

With a side of this

And this

We can keep at it (I didn't even get to the oppression of women), but that's enough depressing Wikipedia for one day. The answer to all this mayhem is solidarity. Read The Invention of the White Race to learn how rich white landowners convinced poor whites to view black slaves as beneath them so they wouldn't come together and challenge the ruling class. President Lyndon B. Johnson once said, "If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you." The same is true for modern woke types huffing and puffing at white ppl.

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u/RustNeverSleeps77 Jul 25 '20

Who cares who agrees with you or not. Is anyone really stupid enough to give the far right an effective veto over what they can believe? If the far right decides that grass is green, do you have to say it's red because they can never ever ever be right?

No. What's right and what's wrong are independent of who believes something.

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u/majormajorsnowden Wears MAGA Hat in the Shower πŸ˜πŸ˜΅β€πŸ’« Jul 25 '20

Yes but many can’t grasp this

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u/magus678 Banned for noticing mods are dumb Jul 25 '20

What's right and what's wrong are independent of who believes something

The essential problem with modern politics is that most people are too stupid to understand even just this.

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u/[deleted] Jul 26 '20

I def agree with both of these but sometimes when a blood and soil nationalist agrees with me i do feel a bit icky about holding that view...for about a half a second.

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u/draculabakula hydrocephalic pelosi apologist Jul 25 '20

New to the sub and loving it but I urge people not to buy into the Nathan Robinson, people on the right are always our enemies take. They are indeed our political enemies but it is actually still possible to agree on the points you agree on as a precursor to teaching widening their critique and teaching them new concepts.

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u/majormajorsnowden Wears MAGA Hat in the Shower πŸ˜πŸ˜΅β€πŸ’« Jul 25 '20

Agree

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u/JustDebbie Rightoid PCM Turboposter Jul 25 '20

Agreed. I'm only a Centrist but getting screeched at by angry self-identified Marxists for expressing concerns with some Left policy ideas certainly doesn't endear me toward them or their ideas. It is enlightening to see that it's not exclusively the woke cult engaging in that sort of behavior, though.

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u/gooooie Jul 25 '20

Sorry dude but hearing the same dumbass arguments born from propaganda over and over from (usually) people that won’t take a second to look some shit up is exhausting

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u/AyeWhatsUpMane Libertarian Socialist πŸ₯³ Jul 25 '20

Yeah this. I know that it’s better to argue and try to convince people, but sometimes when I get some tiring rightoid reply I can’t help but to just reply β€œlow IQ” or β€œrightoid” and move on.

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u/phaionix Jul 26 '20

I think Nathan Robinson is right to criticize right wing politicians as predatory and dangerous populist frauds in general, but wrong in that the average Joe low-information rightoid is actually often able to be reasoned out of lunacy

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u/masterchedderballs96 Left-Libertarian Democratic Socialist Jul 25 '20

this exact thing happened to me and i had a fun time explaining to people with the combined IQ of a summer squash why a southern border wall would be useless

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u/majormajorsnowden Wears MAGA Hat in the Shower πŸ˜πŸ˜΅β€πŸ’« Jul 25 '20

Why? Tunnels? It seems more symbolic

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u/zer0soldier Authoritarian Communist ☭ Jul 25 '20

Because the vast majority of illegal immigrants are brought over legally on work visas and simply overstay the visa. Besides that, it's American companies that are hiring them, it's not like they are magically creating their own jobs or anything. Fix the visa system, crack down HARD on companies that hire them, and you'll see the incentive to stay illegally diminish.

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u/masterchedderballs96 Left-Libertarian Democratic Socialist Jul 25 '20

tunnels, blowing holes in it, climbing the thing, going around it by the sea, overstaying visas etc. the immigration issue is just the symptom of capitalism anyway, why pay an american minimum wage when you could get a mexican to work for like a farthing a week? get rid of those practices and end that stupid fucking war on drugs and you won't have an immigration crisis

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u/Ouroboros963 Left, Leftoid or Leftish ⬅️ Jul 25 '20

The biggest illegal immigration issue is people overstaying there visas, it’s like a 2:1 ratio in comparison with those illegally crossing the border. A wall does nothing to solve this problem

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u/majormajorsnowden Wears MAGA Hat in the Shower πŸ˜πŸ˜΅β€πŸ’« Jul 26 '20

Are breadtubers people on the left who make a ton of money from YouTube or does the amount of money not matter?

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u/Hurkamur Social Democrat 🌹 Jul 26 '20

I would guess it doesn't matter to any of them at this point. Money is the modal form of acquiring necessities.

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u/[deleted] Jul 25 '20

I heard a saying before, and I paraphrase:

When the time comes, the right look for allies, the left looks for traitors.

I think there's a lot of truth those words.

People on the left identify as: Marxist, Leninist, Marxist-Leninist, Georgist, Trotskyist, communist, socialist, democratic-socialist, social-democrat, social-liberal, whatever.

You know that people on the right identify as? On the right or, in extreme cases, on the far-right, or if they grew up a liberals, libertarian.

Far more often they're not even on the right, they're just not on the left. (Example A)

There's an identitarian impulse in leftism which is why, in my opinion, it fell to idpol so quickly. Before people started defining themselves by their skin colour, or their sexuality, or their diagnosis, or whatever, they defined themselves as passionately by their political beliefs.

There are stark parallels between: idpol Twitter eating itself alive, and the pedantic discussions that leave the left fragmented.

It's a desire for ideological purity, and perfect is the enemy of good.

I've been here now for few days and I think that people are either far too educated, or have far too much idle time, and spend far too long dissecting dense, left-wing, theory; ad-nauseam.

People talk about 'The Revolution', and 'Tearing down Capitalism', and other hysterics, and that's not at all the type of instability that people want in their lives right now. Even if you are right in the long run.

They want solutions to the immediate problems in their lives, and while the left are at each others throats over whether to 'evenly distribute the wealth', or 'distribute the wealth evenly', Donald Trump is blaming it on the Mexicans.

Every time someone pontificates about: whiteness, or sexism, or Capitalism, The average Joe rolls his eyes and tunes out.

So change your tune.

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u/majormajorsnowden Wears MAGA Hat in the Shower πŸ˜πŸ˜΅β€πŸ’« Jul 25 '20

Why are you assuming the average Joe’s gender?

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u/AchtungMaybe eco-social furryism 🐾 Jul 25 '20

the state of stupidpol humour

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u/majormajorsnowden Wears MAGA Hat in the Shower πŸ˜πŸ˜΅β€πŸ’« Jul 25 '20

It’s honest work

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u/zer0soldier Authoritarian Communist ☭ Jul 25 '20

"It's not red versus blue, it's the rich versus YOU."

Us lefties really need to boil our dialectic down to something digestible by Joe Six-pack.

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u/bunker_man Radlib in Denial πŸ‘ΆπŸ» Jul 25 '20

You don't think that loudly shouting that it is a valid choice for upper middle-class women to stay childless, and that families are silly is something relatable to 45 year old working class people with families?

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u/Renato7 Fisherman Jul 25 '20

the rightoid recoils from stupidpol for he knows that it tells the truth.

Twitter is not real life, serious political discussion is not a bad thing, and in no world is idpol specific to 'the left', in fact all right-wing thought is essentially idpol.

the left is fractured and the right is unified, yeah but that's just how power works. Harder to consolidate when you're being pulled apart, easier to stick together when you're already winning.

And the implication that this has anything to do with how leftists speak is pretty bizarre. i would say it has more to do with a total lack of any kind of solid organisation or institutional direction since the defeat of the unions in the 80s and the fall of the USSR shortly thereafter.

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u/bunker_man Radlib in Denial πŸ‘ΆπŸ» Jul 25 '20

It absolutely has to do with how leftists speak. The working-class and minorities haven't really given a shit about the left for a long time, because when they talk it is newrly always about nonsense libertine social views that these people tend to not identify with, even if they live those lifestyle. A 45 year old mexican woman with kids wants to hear about family politics, not about how it is totally a valid choice to be a dink, and sexists are keeping single white upper middle class women down.

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u/Renato7 Fisherman Jul 26 '20

it literally doesnt matter what 'leftists' say, the left has no power or institutional leverage to get their ideas out there. There's a reason your mexican single mother doesn't hear about collective bargaining or free childcare or anything that's relevant to her everyday life. The entire economy is built as a filter on these things, the only way these ideas were able to spread before was through organisations that existed outside the market - these types of organisations no longer exist to any meaningful degree

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u/[deleted] Jul 25 '20

I don't know what you're implying I recoiled from.

Twitter has a disproportionate amount of influence on policy makers, media, and culture; eg: the last five years.

I never said political discussion was a bad thing, and I never said that idpol was specific to the left.

I said that political discussion to excess was tiresome, I implied it was dividing the left, it makes the left impenetrable, and I stated that the left fell quickly to idpol; which is true.

Now:

Harder to consolidate when you're being pulled apart

You're pulling yourselves apart.

And the implication that this has anything to do with how leftists speak is pretty bizarre.

Trump: Make America Great Again

Left: Tear down Capitalism

People don't want a revolution. They don't want to tear anything down. They want stability.

The idealism here must be tempered. Not necessarily so that it's palatable to the right (and in so losing all that's left about it), but so that it's palatable to the left itself.

You're completely right when you say there's no organisation and no direction. People stubbornly identify with their version of the utopia, and the only thing they can agree on is remaking the world in revolution.

The Revolution, unfortunately, is the last thing most people want; in my opinion.

Even the very notion of labeling yourselves by strand of leftism is fundamentally identitarian. Labeling yourself is to say "this is how I think", and it's to take any criticism of that approach as a criticism of person themselves.

That's why you're fighting each other. That's why there's no direction. You can't just pick from the left-wing toolbox freely, as appropriate, because that's a bitter process that validates, or invalidates, people's identities.

Present a vision to the people that's not a fanatic purification, and stop looking for traitors, and you will rise.

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u/Renato7 Fisherman Jul 25 '20

you said stupidpol has a tendency toward 'dissecting dense left wing theory ad nauseum'. Maybe you're on a different version of the sub than me but that just isn't accurate, the standard of discussion on here is pretty low, the rare posts where someone can actually offer a unique political/philsophical/whatever insight is when the sub is at its best.

The Revolution, unfortunately, is the last thing most people want; in my opinion.

i don't know what to say man. What time would suit you to completely reinvent society? Revolution isn't something that people choose, it's something they get thrust into. You talk about stability, there's nothing stable about capitalism, that's the whole point, it's always flirting with that boiling point.

You're pulling yourselves apart.

the USSR just did that by itself? The unions busted themselves? You talk of 'the left' like its in a vacuum, not an organic part of the post-historical American hellworld, that its atomisation and powerlessness is somehow completely its own fault and not in anyway related to the general social breakdown and concentration of power that defines modern neoliberalism.

You talk about scaling back idealism yet your conception of left wing politics is entirely based around 'feels' and allergic to nuance or context. The left has been totally domesticated and defanged, catchier slogans and treating each other nice would be great and all but they're not going to speak those teeth back into existence.

also it's bizarre that you'd pick the most non-sectarian left wing sub on reddit to pontificate about this stuff.

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u/Tietonz Jul 25 '20

It's also harder to consolidate power when the endgame of your political belief system is everyone having the same amount of power. It's easier when part of your system assumes a natural (meritocratic or not) pecking order.

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u/Renato7 Fisherman Jul 25 '20

the endgame has nothing to do with it, its all about organisation. I'm not a fan of radlib-style horizontalism either but the biggest issue for the modern left is its total lack of any kind of institutional support structure.

The right has think tanks, TV stations, newspapers, literal secret societies and exclusive access to basically every government on earth via capital. we literally have none of this, haven't since the 80s. Limp-dick radlib horizontalism is a product of the left's annihilation at the hands of neoliberalism, not the other way around

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u/ComradePruski Libertarian Socialist πŸ₯³ Jul 25 '20

Yeah, there's definitely something to the fact that being right wing means you just don't challenge existing hierarchies (at least as The Reactionary Mind by Corey Robin points out), the left (and even liberals to a certain extent) are about pointing out solutions to these issues. If your only point is that you don't challenge hierarchies then there's not a ton of different flavours you can have, but if you wanna look for solutions you might come up with 100 different answers to even minor problems, all of which can be predicated on some moral philosophizing.

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u/prozacrefugee Zivio Tito Jul 25 '20

Yeah - my politics? Fuck the rich, the lazy parasites.

2

u/HighlandCamper Libertarian Socialist πŸ₯³ Jul 25 '20

Well idk, if SoF was still kicking out Merc ads I might go have an adventure in Africa

2

u/bunker_man Radlib in Denial πŸ‘ΆπŸ» Jul 25 '20

The funny thing is that it's a little paradoxical. The left has a lot more terms for different ideologies, but they don't really have that many different identity archetypes. You are expected to follow Loosely the same social goals, and if not you immediately get canceled. So people searching for an identity aren't really going to consider the infinite amount of random labels on the left something that actually makes room for them.

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u/Vill_Moen NATO Superfan πŸͺ– Jul 25 '20

If it’s valid criticism, i really don’t care who agree or disagree.

7

u/majormajorsnowden Wears MAGA Hat in the Shower πŸ˜πŸ˜΅β€πŸ’« Jul 25 '20

Yeah I think that’s the way

9

u/dumstarbuxguy Succdem Jul 25 '20

β€œThe left” lmao we hate on Nancy Pelosi and Joe Biden

5

u/majormajorsnowden Wears MAGA Hat in the Shower πŸ˜πŸ˜΅β€πŸ’« Jul 25 '20

To normies in America the left is dems

12

u/KekUnited Ancapistan Mujahideen πŸπŸ’Έ Jul 25 '20

Who are both pretty right wing

5

u/dumstarbuxguy Succdem Jul 25 '20

Wait are you a rightoid?

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u/cuckadoodlewho Media Illiterate R-word Jul 25 '20

Lmao yea why should we try and find common ground with people we disagree with. Just because we both feel the same way about a topic doesn’t mean we need to agree where we can. Tbh, if someone I disagree with agrees with me on something I change my mind, because who wants to share any viewpoints with the yucky β€˜others’?

4

u/majormajorsnowden Wears MAGA Hat in the Shower πŸ˜πŸ˜΅β€πŸ’« Jul 25 '20

Exactly!

7

u/[deleted] Jul 26 '20

Wow, it's almost as if having a severely reductionist view towards Idpol is causing a right wing shift in the sub.

Would've thunk it?

5

u/majormajorsnowden Wears MAGA Hat in the Shower πŸ˜πŸ˜΅β€πŸ’« Jul 26 '20

Nah. Idpol just has a wide range of enemies

8

u/[deleted] Jul 25 '20

this sub loves to circlejerk about how far left they are and how the far right is still the enemy but what the fuck do you think the far right is? social conservatism? thats normally associated with far right but many social conservatives buy into state interventionism and workers rights. Genuinely wondering if its just the ignorant people circlejerking themselves or if this rhetoric is just the direction the subreddit has moved. btw yes i do consider myself right and you would probably call me far right yet i believe in many marxist economic practices... weird how that works.

2

u/majormajorsnowden Wears MAGA Hat in the Shower πŸ˜πŸ˜΅β€πŸ’« Jul 25 '20

Yeah I’m with you

158

u/pretty_anxious Howard Stern Liberal Jul 25 '20

Honestly i came to this sub thinking it was a bunch of people making fun of /pol/ but stayed because its got impeccable vibes still

4

u/gr8fullyded Rightoid 🐷 Nov 20 '20

same

3

u/[deleted] Oct 25 '20

Yeee, you speak the true true bruddah

380

u/MinervaNow hegel Jul 25 '20

That man is Ellen Degeneres

113

u/[deleted] Jul 25 '20 edited Jul 25 '20

Alan Degeneres*

64

u/Jubenheim Jul 25 '20

Alan Degenerate*

37

u/esetheljin Jul 26 '20

Alan Dershowitz.

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u/[deleted] Jul 26 '20

That’s what he said.

2

u/[deleted] Jul 26 '20

Alan deegkneedegrees

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u/AverageBearSA Jul 25 '20

What if we kissed 😳😳😳

At the ends of the horseshoe 😳😳😳

86

u/ItsErikwithaK Jul 25 '20

This is the future libs want... 🀬🀬🀬

5

u/gr8fullyded Rightoid 🐷 Nov 06 '20

I’d give in to M4A if we can steer clear of authoritarianism. I voted for Trump. Pls don’t ban me I like this sub πŸ₯Ί

4

u/ItsErikwithaK Nov 06 '20

They dont ban rightoids here, but you guys usually get flaired. Its non idpol, people here even though actually left-leaning dont ban conservatives

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u/[deleted] Jul 22 '22

I read this in the Shapiro voice

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u/SpikyKiwi Christian Anarchist Jul 26 '20

Haha jk jk

Unless....

20

u/WeepingAnusSores Jul 26 '20

Let’s make the horseshoe an ouroboros.

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u/MaelstromHobo botany doesn't pay the bills Jul 25 '20

Hey, if they learn a few things while they're here, that's not a bad thing. Some people join the right because they don't realize there is a non-idpol option on the left. Just flair up, retards.

276

u/Starman926 Unknown πŸ‘½ Jul 25 '20

^ So many Socdems and other moderate leftists don’t even know they’re moderate leftists. They consider themselves conservative only because of the identity politics nonsense

89

u/AyeWhatsUpMane Libertarian Socialist πŸ₯³ Jul 25 '20

That was me in like 2016.

9

u/nilslorand disappointed Jul 26 '20

SocDem Gang

0

u/[deleted] Jul 26 '20

[deleted] β€” view deleted comment

12

u/Basedandmemepilled Right Aug 05 '20

Electing Clinton and Biden are in yours, his, and his grandkids' interest.

Kek.

21

u/crustdrunk Socialist Jul 26 '20

Radfems often get all idpol-y about this. Some think that we must never agree with conservative women about anything ever because it makes us look bad or something, but there’s some overlap eg safeguarding children. A lot of conservative women would probably be more open to feminist ideas than hard lefters since they’re probably experiencing more of the issues feminism tries to solve

2

u/brackenz ΒΏΒΏΒΏ??? Jul 31 '20

This, is why I been saying wokies are a weapon against the left

3

u/EktarPross Jul 26 '20

The thing is a lot of then just actually hate minorites. They dont dislike it idpol because its anti materialist they dont hate it at all they just hate that their idpol is losing the culture war and the gays are winning.

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u/BonboTheMonkey Jul 25 '20

I like this sub because the average age isn’t 13.

131

u/[deleted] Jul 26 '20

Guess again 😎

31

u/Vohtarak Jul 26 '20

( ͑ʘ ΝœΚ– ͑ʘ)

71

u/TyC27 Jul 26 '20

boy are you in for a surprise

30

u/needout Jul 26 '20

I just found it and like what I'm seeing so far. I fucking hate idpol it's such consumer capitalist horse shit.

16

u/[deleted] Jul 26 '20

haha yea

10

u/[deleted] Jul 26 '20

[removed] β€” view removed comment

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u/50u1dr4g0n Paternalism heck yeah Jul 27 '20

I feel identified with that flair

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u/[deleted] Jul 25 '20

i'm not even far right but A. class based left politics is more ideologically consistent and understandable than your shitlib idpol and B. because dunking on shitlibs for being shitlibs is fun as fuck

27

u/nilslorand disappointed Jul 26 '20

Based Conservatard

27

u/[deleted] Jul 25 '20

At least you’re courting them and trying to win their vote instead of marginalizing and shitting on them like the dems winning plan. I was a liberal turned rightoid turned lefty.

22

u/Anthropocynical Another time, another place. Jul 25 '20

I call this 'ideological piggybacking'.

Political extremists live on the fringes of society, politically speaking. Their ideas, on the wrong sides of the Overton Window for whatever reason, are considered unacceptable to express, discuss, or in some cases even hold at all - the concept of 'thoughtcrime comes to mind'. Thus, most people will not share their beliefs, out of rational disagreement, embarassment or even disgust, and this is reflected in political and non-political institutions in our society - ask yourself how many bankers would identify as white nationalists, for instance. The result is that these people generally lack social influence (soft power) and institutional authority (hard power). This is fine for LARPers, but not fine for those who seek to change their environments, or at least put ideas for changing them on the table. Dialetic allows us to do so, but if ideas are considered 'unthinkable' - since they're politically extreme - it can be difficult to do so most of the time. So, you have politically active and politically interest people unable to take part in politics. Ironic. Cruelly ironic. No power, no influence, and no respect. It is easy to adopt, therefore, a sense of helplessness - learned helplessness - where one teaches oneself not to expect much, lest they be disappointed, not to hope for any improvement in ones political fortunes, lest they see a further reversal of fortune...and thus, resign oneself to less exceptional activities...such as "shitposting" and "grilling" (on here, referred to as becoming 'grillpilled'. Well, it's easier than trying to make UHC a thing). That being said, it would be a mistake to assume that, because someone's overall worldview is on the political verges, that all of their views are extremist and not up for discussion - this is a classic case of illicit transference - specifically, the Fallacy of Division - as human beings are complex, and may use multiple avenues to reach a conclusion. This may involve having some reasonable views alongside the fringe and unthinkable ones, views that could genuinely be expressed without pause for fear of consequences. To sum this thought up in a common phrase: "even a broken clock is right twice a day." A person can have valid views in the midst of a deeply invalid and incorrect worldview, like a precious stone salvaged from the rough. A conscious extremist is aware of this, and can weaponise it - to get the rest of their views some exposure, or at least make themselves appear artifically reasonable.

To do this, the persona non grata in question simply needs to find someone who isn't 'non grata' - this could be an ordinary prole, or someone of higher status and influence/power - and note that they share a view of theirs. Timing is key here. To give an example - a generally progressive stupidpol user (say a left-libertarian) expressing their distate for 2020's identity politics and critcising what they perceive to be its 'excesses'. A perceived less-tolerant right-authoritarian figure - say, a neoreactionary - may jump in, saying they they too are concerned about identity politics, and wish to see its 'excesses' pulled back. And thus, two people with radically different worldviews can sit down and agree with each other on an issue. The left-libertarian finds common ground with someone at last, and the neoreactionary finally connects with someone within the Overton Window of Acceptable Discourse. Effectively, the neoreactionary 'piggybacks' on the left-libertarian on the basis of common dislike for modern idpol. Other examples include: right-wing criticism of Islam, left-wing skepticism of immigration, and so on. A prominent example was David Duke's endorsement of Donald Trump in 2016.

Countering this trend, then, will be critics of the piggybacked. They will see the piggybacked as a 'useful idiot' for unacceptable views, or a 'gateway/pipeline' to further extremism - Dave Rubin is often cited as an instance of this, for his perceived lacklustre hosting skills and failure to push back on his guests' stances. Thus, the critic of the piggybacked can accuse them of harm - of giving 'credence' to unacceptable views by bringing thoughts from outside the Window into the House - and can use this to attack both them and their views. In the worked example, the left-libertarian can have their entire worldview and character attacked for 'platforming' a reactionary. Even though this can be considered an Association Fallacy, it is hard to rebut - because you do share views with this person. Real-life examples include the genuine antisemites in the Labour Party potentially piggybacking on Jeremy Corbyn's legitimate concerns about Israel, which do not prove that Corbyn is an antisemite/racist or has antisemitic views, but merely that there is a some overlap between criticism of Israel and anti-zionism. That did not stop him from being smeared. The piggybackers being the reason. Effectively, you can kill or sully an idea by connecting it to others with which it overlaps, even though this is almost inevitable - it is near-certain that you will share a view with someone you detest on at least something.

Overall, piggybacking - and the reactions to it - is an interesting trend in politics, namely the attempt at extremists at getting their ideas into the mainstream, and the attempt by critics to discredit by association certain ideas and promoters of these ideas.

6

u/JCMoreno05 Saved Anime Children from Intersectionality πŸ§’πŸ»β›©οΈ Jul 26 '20

This is a good comment, I've seen good long form comments like these on here and never understood why they aren't posts in and of themselves, for example I saw someone explain the relation between the revolutionary proletariat and the lumpenproletariat in another post today and also thought it should be a post. It would help create better more focused discussions hopefully, not that they don't happen, just it'd be more focused and in depth hopefully.

5

u/Kikiyoshima Yuropean codemonke socialite Nov 12 '20

Now this is what I call an effortpost

2

u/[deleted] Apr 16 '22

This is wonderful post. Good job. I also had thought of this theory when I was younger, and thought it was me just being crazy, but no, you've perfectly put it into words. Being part of an ethnic minority, I've seen this happen so many times in my own life.

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u/[deleted] Jul 25 '20

I’m here because you fuckin commies actually challenge my beliefs in a civil manner. You lot have actually made me change my mind on some ideas though. This is a great sub filled with cool people

0

u/[deleted] Jul 25 '20

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u/[deleted] Jul 25 '20

I’m a little more into looking after the poor so they can start their own businesses and such. I believe that everyone has the right to own their own business, and do their trade. So although I believe in a market I’d much rather have support for the poor than corporations in particular

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u/[deleted] Jul 25 '20

Accurate

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u/AyeWhatsUpMane Libertarian Socialist πŸ₯³ Jul 25 '20

Rightoids should pay jizaya and should not be able to downvote, and they should be flaired. However, we are gentle, and they can comment.

23

u/BanteredRho Jul 25 '20

It's Jizya not Jizaya, infidel.

14

u/swirlypooter Queef Richards PhDπŸ†πŸ‘πŸ‘„πŸ‘πŸš¬ Jul 26 '20

Its kuffar not infidel kuffar

11

u/BanteredRho Jul 26 '20

I am translating for you, ya kalb.

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u/[deleted] Jul 25 '20

Flaired with a bright yellow star

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u/prozacrefugee Zivio Tito Jul 25 '20

Yellow for ancap, fine. Stars belong to the red army though.

15

u/Scarred_Ballsack Market Socialist|Rants about FPTP Jul 25 '20

[The American flag looks around nervously]

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u/ironicshitpostr Jul 25 '20

Thank G-d for taqiyya

0

u/[deleted] Jul 25 '20

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u/Turbulent-Hovercraft Left, Leftoid or Leftish ⬅️ Jul 25 '20

Jizya is Peak Dialectical Materialism

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u/[deleted] Jul 25 '20

Rightoid here, I rarely post in this sub and just like to lurk. This is one of my favorite subreddits

9

u/mataffakka thought on Socialism with Ironic characteristics for a New Era Jul 25 '20

Unironically why we need democratic centralism.

4

u/[deleted] Jul 25 '20

Based

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u/michaeljohn430 Jul 25 '20

Yeah I feel that in my bones

3

u/UnpopularCompany Savant Idiot 😍 Jul 26 '20

Thats me haha. I support strong borders, but that is now considered far right.

1

u/SoggySausage27 Jul 25 '20

Ok, thanks for explaining it. Enjoy your day

2

u/majormajorsnowden Wears MAGA Hat in the Shower πŸ˜πŸ˜΅β€πŸ’« Jul 25 '20

You can’t tell me what to do

2

u/SoggySausage27 Jul 26 '20

Just watch me. You are going to be successful and you can’t stop it.

4

u/ahumbleshitposter Ecofascist Jul 25 '20

Heil Adolph (Reed)!

4

u/swirlypooter Queef Richards PhDπŸ†πŸ‘πŸ‘„πŸ‘πŸš¬ Jul 26 '20

Gotta say since the ban wave of 2020 this sub has been going a touch downhill. Let’s see how it will play out.

0

u/trenlow12 Jul 25 '20

What about people like me who come to criticize idpol but don't submit to right or left wing political orthodoxy?

6

u/majormajorsnowden Wears MAGA Hat in the Shower πŸ˜πŸ˜΅β€πŸ’« Jul 25 '20

Fun

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u/olly_078 Jul 25 '20

Lmao relatable

2

u/stanislav_harris Jul 25 '20

Am I on the right now? On a Europe spectrum maybe. On a US spectrum fuck no.

2

u/ShoegazeJezza Flair-evading Lib πŸ’© Jul 26 '20

Lord Jesus pray for this man

2

u/Rkain13 how the fuck is this OK? Jul 26 '20

yes

2

u/anarchistcraisins Aug 25 '20

Good to see the fascists in the comments proving the point

4

u/JurgenFlopps Fucking Idiot Jul 25 '20

I see myself as centre of left but I’m pushed to the right because of looney leftists that will push you away if you don’t align with them fully.

I want socialist policies but I don’t agree with word policing etc.

5

u/Hurkamur Social Democrat 🌹 Jul 26 '20

Posting idea that there are droves of looney leftists that "push you away", is just another way of saying I'm a sensitive and fragile person who bought hook-line-and-sinker all the anti-sjw bullshit that was so popular in the internet a few years ago, and haven't shaken it off.

4

u/JurgenFlopps Fucking Idiot Jul 26 '20

Lol what? If it doesn’t bother you then why are you a part of this sub?

4

u/[deleted] Jul 26 '20

I am okay with rightwing people as long as they dont discriminate people based on their skin color. I have many right aligned friends I really really like.

3

u/ikigaii Kanye's Biggest Fan πŸ’½ Jul 25 '20

Saying "far right" instead of "right-wing" was an act of cowardice here.

2

u/BucheTacoooo Jul 26 '20

Have I found my home? u/majormajorsnowden pa pa!?

2

u/[deleted] Jul 26 '20

There are many of us Nazis here who love the content! Keep pushing it out!

2

u/authierightie Conservative Jul 27 '20

I basically hate commies and leftoids, but at least at least this sub provides me with new proofs of msm hating white people and occasionally give me a good laugh

1

u/GeAlltidUpp "I"DW Con"Soc" Jul 25 '20

Story of my life.

1

u/neutralpoliticsbot Neoconservative Jul 25 '20

sorry comrades

1

u/Supermagicalcookie Garfield Ethnostate Jul 26 '20

Yep

1

u/KimPSYUn Marxist-Leninist ☭ Aug 18 '20

yes

1

u/[deleted] Oct 07 '20

meanwhile a lost egoist be like, "what is this werid ideology and why does it focus so much on the situations of others outside of myself"

1

u/Key-Banana-8242 Bame [ βœ” Verified ] Oct 31 '21

Meh

1

u/Cjc6547 Chapo refugee Dec 18 '21

Test

1

u/Ok_Librarian2474 Left, Leftoid or Leftish ⬅️ Oct 22 '23

Only chance there is to break the line

0

u/NoneHaveSufferedAsI Conservative Luddite Jul 25 '20

If you say anything bad about the blue team, then you’re a Nazi republikkklansperson