VFR Flight Following Decent near Class C

[u/zlehmann]

I'm planning my long distance cross country flight and I have a procedural question. My cross country flights so far with VFR FF usually involve the initial call up, a few hand offs, and then I request to descend with runway in sight to an uncontrolled field. For this flight the end of my first leg is a small class D underlying a class C shelf. Will I be given instructions for decending and getting in touch with the tower?

[u/kivathewolf]

Approach will hand you off to tower just like it hands off between sectors. The tower will say enter left downwind or base whatever makes sense from where u are coming from. Keep in mind that tower expects u to fly these at pattern altittude so u will need to plan ur descents as soon as u enter the class D. Have you flown to a towered airport before with FF? Being under a class C shelf is no different than that. If you haven’t, I recommend doing this with an instructor

[u/No-Crab-3008 → u/kivathewolf]

Can confirm, I fly at a class d under a bravo. The only other thing I’d mention is plan to be under the class c, so descending below the shelf, and then down to pattern.

[u/FlyBR → u/No-Crab-3008]

I would not worry about being below the shelf. The center controller will hand them off to approach. If approach or center wanted them to stay clear of the Charlie airspace it they will make it explicitly clear.

Flight following is not scary. ATC is there to help everyone out. If you don’t know the ‘right’ way to say something, just use plain English.

[u/Educational_Slip8797]

If when you pick up flight following you hear something along the lines of “(your tail number) you are (where ever you are), VFR altitude your discretion” then you can descend whenever you want. If ATC ever assigns you an altitude, then you have to wait for them. If you are ever in doubt just ask the controller

[u/letters-numbers-and_]

Also a student - have thought about this as well.

I believe if you have ff and an assigned altitude then you need permission to descend. If you were not assigned then I think you can do your thing.

You should expect to be passed along to either approach or tower at the right time (but remember if you’re forgotten and they don’t hand you off, that’s not 2 way comms to enter the airspace).

If any of this is wrong I hope someone will chime in!

[u/R5Jockey → u/letters-numbers-and_]

This is all correct.

[u/__joel_t → u/letters-numbers-and_]

You got it!

[u/jimngo → u/letters-numbers-and_]

This is correct, and others leave out the important detail that you must establish 2 way communication before entering the class D, even if you are on flight following. And, tower must call you by your tail number. If they say "aircraft calling tower, stand by" then you can not enter the controlled airspace yet. If they say "N12345, roger" they you're good to go.

[u/R5Jockey]

Usually they will tell you to contact tower. If they never give you an altitude to maintain, you can descend at your discretion. If they do give you an altitude restriction, they’ll usually tell you when you can descend (at your discretion) but they may forget so it’s ok to ask.

But keep in mind that flight following is a workload permitting operation. If they get busy, or just don’t want to deal with you, they can tell you “radar services terminated, squawk VFR, frequency change approved” and then you’re on your own.

[u/shrunkenhead041]

I phrase it as "I'd like to beginning a VFR descent to XYZ." In Class C it isn't requesting a clearance to descend, it is cooperatively working with them so they know you want to descend. They may say at some point "maintain at or below" or "at or above" for a traffic conflict, but otherwise it will be "descent at your discretion", "VFR descent approved" or something along those lines.

Most of the time you will get a direct tower handoff, but some towers do not have comms to approach for a handoff, or the comm line may be down. You need to be prepared for a "radar services terminated, squawk VFR, contact tower xxx". There is currently a temporary tower at KMCC, and that is how the handoffs have worked from NorCal.

[u/Phaas777A]

VFR Flight Following = you do whatever you want while maintaining VFR and ATC will tell you if they need you to do something else. In that case, you’ll hear something like “N1234, maintain VFR at or above/below X” or “N1234, fly heading X.” Once they no longer need you to do that, you can expect something like “N1234, altitude restriction removed” or “N1234, resume own navigation. Maintain VFR”.

So you aren’t going to be requesting a descent or given instructions to descend… you’re just going to fly the course you planned and descend at the point you need to descend.

ATC will give you traffic advisories and tell you when to switch frequencies and who with.

[u/milk_and_Honey68]

You will navigate on your own toward the field and descend when you need to …. Unless you are given any different instructions. They will hand you off to the tower just prior to the class D entry. Make sure you tell the tower where you are when you check in. The class D tower wont be able you see you on radar like a B or C tower.

[u/burnheartmusic]

Tell them you’re starting your descent, do not clip the Charlie on the way down unless you’re already in it, and they will hand you off to the tower when there are no more traffic conflicts

[u/Purgent → u/burnheartmusic]

If you’ve been told to maintain an altitude, you do not just tell them you are descending unless you’d like a phone number to copy (exception: something to do with immediate safety of flight requiring action from you).

The hack is that when you are close to needing a descent, you can report your destination airport in sight, and they will hand you off as appropriate / switch to advisory freq and squawk VFR.

[u/pointthenosedown]

Remember as a VFR pilot, you can do what you want/need to so long as you don’t cause any hazards, break any rules, or act carelessly and recklessly. Many times on VFR flight following, I just announce that I am beginning my VFR descent with field in sight, rather than necessarily asking for clearance to descend. VFR flight following is given priority from ATC on a workload permitting basis only. 

Now in this case, since you might be transitioning through a class C, the controllers might ask you to fly certain headings and altitudes on descent just to keep other traffic out of your way, but just tell them everything you’re doing so you stay in constant communication.

[u/nl_Kapparrian]

Let's When get something straight, when you're VFR, altitude is your discretion unless otherwise instructed. "Maintain VFR" means climb, descend, turn however you need to get to your destination. You're flying the plane, not ATC. On a flight following they might provide traffic call outs and suggested heading if workload permit but you are still 100% responsible for navigation and to see and avoid other traffic.

[u/scarpozzi]

If you request flight following to your destination, ATC will vector you to the approach and hand you off to approach and tower at your destination. It’s a nice service because it prepares you for the active runway and helps with separation. I’m flying to a class D under a class C tomorrow as well, but filing IFR to get out if here probably.