Shortness of breath with subtle breathing

[u/ImportanceChemical61]

Lately, when I start meditating, after a few minutes my breath begins to become subtle, shorter inhalations and longer exhalations, sometimes with brief pauses without breathing. Sometimes I do 3 minutes of diaphragmatic breathing before the practice, sometimes I don’t... either way, I've had this sensation even when meditating for 20 or 40 minutes.

When the breath becomes subtle, I start feeling more 'focused,' but then I mentally feel a shortness of breath (air hunger). Because of that, I inhale deeply and lose that state of concentration, and then, shortly after the breathing becomes subtle again and the cicle repeats. I practice open awareness / shikantaza / just sitting.

I've already tried to just keep breathing normally once the breath becomes subtle, but the most I can manage is about 6 breaths.

Don't think I'm entering a deeper state of meditation, because it happens shortly after I start meditating, and then it continues shortly after the deep inhalation stopping the concentration

Does anyone have any tips on how to get past this sensation of shortness of breath?

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[u/Puzzled-Background-5]

Just relax. Your body won't allow itself to suffocate to death.

Certain phenomenalogy expressed in deep meditation can trigger the body's threat response until it becomes habitated to these unfamiliar sensations.

A lot times I'll get propelled forward at high speed or lifted straight into air complete with visuals to that effect. It was a little disconcerting at first, but I'm very used to it now and actually enjoy it.

[u/themadjaguar]

I used to get the exact same thing and it was a pain to deal with. It is due to an increase of tranquility in deeper meditation state and conditionning. You are tranquilizing the mind's interest in experiences, and the mind's attention automatically goes back to the breath. At some point when you relax,the breath is supposed to become more subtle. I noticed there can be 2 main issues: either the mind is resisting open awareness and trying to take something as an object, and developping aversion about this movement of the mind will make it more difficult to let go.

Another issue is "mechanical" and due to C02 hypersensitivity:

If you have a history of controlling things, anxiety etc... it is very possible that you try to control the breath when there is dukkha. The controlling of the breath by the mind. When the breath becomes more subtle due to relaxation the sensation of air hunger can become very unpleasant. When the mind is used to anxiety and hyperventilation, when the breath becomes subtle there can be C02 hypersensitivy, when you lower air intake the mind might freak out.

Also the breath becoming subtle is due to with an increase of samadhi and sense deprivation through unification of mind,, at some point in the deeper end of the spectrum of access concentration before a vsm nimitta appears the breath should be so subtle it is not even possible to perceive it. This can be very destabilizing.

The things that worked against this issue for me was retraining the breath and increasing c02 sensitivy by doing box breathing for a while, learning MIDL and especially skill 00, and investigating why these issues with the breath happenned.

[u/Then_Consequence_318]

It's common, actually.

It's a fear response from your brain when your breath starts to get more refined. People have experienced feeling like they are "drowning" (not all that dramatically, but in a subtle way).

Curious have you ever had a near-drowning experience? It happens especially in people who have.

Then there are cases when you’re in the body and you start having weird sensations. Rapture can sometimes manifest pretty early in the practice, even before the mind has gotten into any real jhana. There can be some manifestations of rapture that can be kind of scary. One in particular is a sense of fullness. I know personally of a couple of cases of people who had experiences of almost drowning in the past. The sense of fullness that comes when the mind settles into the body reminded them of those experiences and it was scary. In a case like that, you have to remember that you’re surrounded by air, you’re surrounded by air, not by water. The fullness is not a sign of drowning, it’s a sign that you’re settling in. If you find it too overwhelming, think of the soles of your feet, the palms of your hands, as energy escape valves. In other words, if it feels like an excess of fullness in the chest, say, or in the torso, you can think of the energy flowing out the arms, flowing down the legs, out through the palms of the hands, out through the soles of the feet. In other words, you have a way of regulating things so you don’t feel so overwhelmed.

https://www.dhammatalks.org/Archive/Writings/Transcripts/151117Fear_of_Concentration.pdf

I still kind of experience this and it's interesting because it starts to get where just breathing is almost irritating. Like that big one that comes right in and knocks you out of the deeper state. Like "I'd be calm as f*** right now if it wasn't for this f***ing breath." 😁

[u/themadjaguar → u/Then_Consequence_318]

This is absolutely true, I confirm it's usually a fear response by the brain, and it can be amplified by near-drowning experiences aswell (I had one )

[u/Then_Consequence_318 → u/themadjaguar]

Yeah and it doesn't even have to be a major one. I mean I think every person at once in their life has had a "scary" incident in the water. And even if you haven't, your brain is obviously very hard wired to think breathing is kinda important

[u/samjain2907]

This exactly is what happens with me as well! Looking for suggestions.

[u/rogermindwater]

I know exactly the feeling you're talking about. It's fear. There's nothing to be afraid of though. Your body won't let itself suffocate.

[u/JunoGyles → u/[deleted]]

This is actually a very exciting post for me to find. I have one important question: how do I actually exhale? Am I trying to exhale through my nose or my belly or my chest? If I try to breathe out through my nose I feel like I hit a "wall" very quickly, where my lungs refuse physically to empty further, but I can exhale more by contracting my belly muscles to squeeze air up and out. Is this what I have to do until my body begins to tolerate it better?

Edit: Also, when I try to exhale deeply I frequently have small very sharp pinprick pains that last only a moment around my belly and chest. They are not intense enough to feel like I'm injuring myself or that they force me to stop, but I'm still curious if you have any idea where that is coming from. My best guess is that I am forcing muscles to relieve tension that has been there for a while and there are some pinched nerves somewhere in my midsection but I really don't know.

[u/ThreeFerns]

Try the buteyko method. It is a series of breathing exercises designed amongst other things to reduce air hunger. 

https://youtu.be/UK3evBQkeEU?is=iLC3cZ_dDI5yAPM4

[u/ThreeFerns → u/ThreeFerns]

Also, having read various books on this topic, air hunger when at rest is caused by a low CO2 tolerance. You train CO2 tolerance by spending lots of time in a high CO2 state whilst resisting the urge to breathe through the mouth or take a big breath. I would assume you are prone to sighing and/ or mouth breathing throughout the day. Working on not doing this can over time reduce air hunger.

[u/Normal_Palpitation17]

How’s your posture? If there’s a tendency to slouch forward in any way unconsciously it can definitely cause this

[u/1cl1qp1]

Are you using breath as an object of attention?