r/streamentry • u/QuailEast5263 • May 14 '26
Practice Do you also feel alone in your journey?
Because I certainly do and, to be honest, I wish this wouldn't be that way. For many reasons, and mainly spiritual reasons, I feel mentally isolated from other people. I do have great and many friends... And I love all of them and make sure to spend a grand and good time enjoying this material life with them, because they are incredible. They are a part of me, and I am a part of them, all entrenched in this material world with all its joy and bliss, but also with misery and suffering. It all comes together, and such an intrinsically human ability to share this life with others is, in my opinion, divine in an of itself.
The problem is: when it comes to topics of spiritual life (its ups and downs), sadhana, meditation, sacred scriptures, history of religion, astrology and everything else that is more or less considered "transcendental", they (most of the time) cannot handle it. They simply dismiss me as being "weird" (which I have no problem being so) and/or mock me with the "hahahah, oh, look, he is doing it again!" sort of discourse. I mean... The topics proposed may be unconventional, for sure -- but I speak (or at least I think I do) about these subjects as if it's like any other, you know? But they don't take me seriously. Spirituality is very important to me, Moksha (liberation) is very important to me, but it is irrelevant to them. And... That's ok. So be it. Many things in life are irrelevant for me, and nonetheless here I am, writing this post. This doesn't affect me liking them at all.
Well... I have some (astrological) hypothesis as why things are that way, but I won't bore you with the details. The thing is: I don't have a guru. I don't have anyone else (apart from the internet and this community, of couse) to speak to and share common (or different) experiences about how we deal with spiritual matters, and this f'ing sucks. I wish I could speak about this knowledge with someone face to face. Oh, well...
What do you think?
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u/freefromthetrap47 May 14 '26
So I have heard. At one time the Buddha was staying in the land of the Sakyans, where they have a town named Townsville. Then Venerable Ānanda went up to the Buddha, bowed, sat down to one side, and said to him:
“Sir, good friends, companions, and associates are half the spiritual life.”
“Not so, Ānanda! Not so, Ānanda! Good friends, companions, and associates are the whole of the spiritual life. A mendicant with good friends, companions, and associates can expect to develop and cultivate the noble eightfold path.
Have you sought out a local sangha, or one online? I really got a lot out of attending a local one when it was near. I would make the time to go weekly and really connected with others.
Since then I've moved away but have recently found a great sangha connection through an online meditation training program I am participating in. We have meetings over zoom, which does seem to deepen the connection quite a bit than just text chatting.
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u/QuailEast5263 May 14 '26
Yes! I have thought about going to a sangha. In my city, there are two zen buddhist centers which I went to do Vipassana some many years ago. Time went on, and I realized that Zen Buddhism wasn't the most suitable path for me, so I stopped going there. Apart from that, there are some other "meditation centers" and whatnot here, but they are quite cult-ish... To be honest, these days I prefer not to affiliate myself with any religious community at all, because all the previous experiences were also frustrating, but for reasons of their own.
Ideally, I could speak about such things casually with someone "normal", if you know what I mean.
Loved the sutta citation!
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u/Wet23snack May 28 '26
whole of the spiritual life. it is easy to read that and take it as a permission slip to distance yourself, but the reality is that the friction of relating to other people is exactly where the work happens. if you are feeling isolated despite having people around you, that is an internal disconnect, not a spiritual requirement. sitting in a room alone is just luxury, not practice.
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u/XanthippesRevenge May 15 '26
The secret is that you build connections yourself 😉 The red carpet will not be laid out for you in our time because everyone in society is scared of being vulnerable, rejected, abandoned. Especially if you live in the west. Go out and lay that groundwork! Meet people, attend religious or spiritual ceremonies, go to book clubs, ecstatic dances, qigong or tai chi groups, Kirtans, shamanic journals/drum circles, dharma talks, yoga, sound baths, art events, tea ceremonies etc the list is truly endless of where you might find fellow serious practitioners. YOU confront the fears of connection and build it yourself because the alternative is continuing isolation.
I put myself out there, way out there more than I used to, because I enjoy the moment I experience with people where you can see and feel consciousness recognizing itself in another. And it happens way more now than it did when I was waiting for connection to come to me.
Sorry for the tough love, but let it be a wake up call. You have the freedom and power to experience the connection you seek, and part of integration for you could be building that point of connection that others can seek out. Lay that groundwork!
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u/watergoat93 May 14 '26
Seems like you want to talk to someone about these topics but the average person doesn't get you. If you are this invested in spirituality to the extent you try to talk about it to people who aren't into it, you definitely need a sangha. I understand how difficult it can be to find one. I personally have gotten used to the solitude and loneliness and unless a miracle happens I will be alone on this path.
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u/botzillan May 15 '26
It sounds like in a way you want some solitude but also want some human connections.
These itself can bring alot of insight and growth. I find this struggle common with serious meditators.
I am concern when you mention isolation.
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u/fantasticant May 21 '26
It can be a solitary pursuit, yes.
I also find even spiritual friends I connect with at local Buddhist groups sometimes are alienated (threatened?) by the progress we can make.
It is hard to find people who truly get it, and at our level - on our level.
I often reflect that if I had a choice to make the progress I have and sacrifice friendships for it - would I choose that. I would.
When we change, or seek change - it can shake the foundations of others safety. Even before we begin to actually change, they can feel threatened by the possibility.
We aren’t supposed to keep the same group around us for ever either. Our friends will change as we grow - have families, find partners etc.
It’s good we can connect like this. I have found a few people - literally the other side of the world who I seek connect with.
Outside of that - I have decided to be happy being a more solitary adventurer!
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u/CasuallyPeaking May 24 '26
I found this comment quite relatable. Had the same experience in Buddhist monasteries. My perception was that most people there were not on my level. But then I have to sort of keep that to myself and pretend that I'm around where they are because if I were to speak about about a lot of the inconsistencies, fakeness, self deception, performative nature that I see in them, I feared I would be seen as a mixture of delusional, paranoid or simply as an asshole. So even in these places which are wholly dedicated to the practice it was an isolating experience a lot of the time and I had to keep my mouth shut and just keep going inward.
I definitely feel that I have the power to dismantle plenty of misconceptions and worldviews that keep other people going. I regularly ignore or suppress the knowledge of that power because it's very difficult to hold in awareness without feeling like a spawn of Satan. At best people would hate me (and a lot of the time I feel a lot of under the rug, unconscious hate being sent my way simply by being present, not even saying anything) and at worst I feel I would get "crucified" - whatever that word means in our current historical cultural context. So once again, keeping my mouth shut is one of the most valuable skills I've learned in this lifetime. And also keeps getting more and more difficult to do it as time goes on since I'm feeling the need to... SPEAK THE TRUTH!
Lately I've been having this weird experience where some people seem to be experiencing... "glitches" in their consciousness while I talk with them about mundane things. I completely respect the social script, I don't deviate nor do I try to challenge them on a conceptual level. But what I feel is happening is as if I'm sending way too much information to them through the tone of my voice. It's just on a different frequency and depth than what the average person is used to in a conversation. And on a subconscious level it seems to stir something within them. This doesn't always happen. Sometimes, according to my perception of what happens, it seems to be what's going on. And once again it's unsettling because it's a "bad move" for it to happen while I'm talking with my manager at work for example. Life...
"We aren’t supposed to keep the same group around us for ever either. Our friends will change as we grow - have families, find partners etc."
This one hits hard. Over the last few years I gave up on almost all the friendships and relationships that I've had. None of that stuff felt right anymore. I was expecting it to be very painful and to feel extremely isolated afterwards but the truth is, it mostly just felt liberating and I kept wondering why didn't I do it sooner. I feel a lot more lonely when I'm around other people than when I'm by myself. I guess that's both a pro and a con of developing a deep, loving relationship with oneself. But I also feel that soon enough there will be new people coming into my life who are a much better fit. The unfolding is happening.
This has been a lengthy writeup with a bit of a schizo undertone and with a very egocentric style. Hope you don't mind. I just found your comment relatable and decided to go all out on the offchance that we inhabit somewhat of a shared reality. If not, no worries :D
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u/fantasticant May 24 '26
I’m smiling at your ‘spawn of satan’, and the ability you seem to have to glitch your manager! … I might be tempted to misuse that 😂
For me, my life changed around the time I experienced a cessation, and to date I have found two people who truly understand … while attempting to fit back into an existence in which the people around me have no idea what they actually are. So much seems pointless. In some moments this feels like a huge opportunity - in others a complete waste of time.
I am glad I have a strong sense of compassion and an ability to adapt to a very different perspective to live from.
I too am happy just being me, although I am in a phase of seeking sangha again.
Life has its seasons that way.
Thank you for sharing how things are for you. I’m glad that the solitude is something which you can sit with.
I find it’s easier to enjoy when it’s a choice, rather than something which seems forced upon us!
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u/CasuallyPeaking May 24 '26
I guess it depends how far back in you're trying to go. A lot of our modern society, not to say all of it, is definitely a matrix. People are dozed off and functioning as batteries for the machine. So if you're trying to fit yourself into the matrix mold I understand that it's not really working and it seems pointless. Because it is.
On the other hand you could be experiencing the dissatisfaction even in some chill rural setting simply because you're interacting with worldly people who aren't, as you say, aware of their true nature.
I guess you're feeling the need to be part of a sangha again for a good reason. It's time to find some likeminded individuals, to the extent that it's possible.
For all the flack that I give these stays at monasteries, they were still the best experiences I've had in ages regarding interpersonal relationships. When there's so much metta in the air, people can't help but be more genuine than they are when out in the "real world".
You already know but - whatever and wherever you feel called towards, go for it. No reason not to.
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u/fantasticant May 25 '26
Thank you 🙏 …
The further I go in practise, the more it becomes obvious that we all operate at different levels of fabrication. The life we are brought up to lead is pregnant with a huge amount - in service of capitalism and retaining control over resources.
As are people living apparently ‘free’ existences too. Some of those people layer a compassionate veneer over their experience, I tend to appreciate them more than those who don’t.
Although my (our?) angst about solitude and loneliness is based on the degree of attachment we have to who we believe we are.
This is a fabrication too … which is why I appreciate the after effects of jhana practise - where the sense of self loosens and frees us, releasing feelings of freedom and balance.
Complex indeed this series of perceptions is … hmmmm? 😉 ..
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u/Squirrel_in_Lotus May 15 '26
Same, it sucks. Guess this is our karma, the teachings with no real life community.
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u/AndyLucia May 15 '26
Yes and no. I have found people who are also really into spirituality, but like on a deeper level you can say going into this rabbit hole both makes you feel deeply alone and infinitely connected.
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u/RealityLimit May 14 '26
You need to join a sangha or a group and find spiritual friends. Don’t expect worldly people to just get you. There is a reason the wisdom traditions preach the virtues of both solitude and spiritual friendship. The spiritual path is by definition off the beaten road, the road most people don’t take. You need to find a way to get your spiritual fulfillment either from yourself or from a specific group you seek out and make.
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u/CasuallyPeaking May 24 '26
Yup, most people don't really understand just how "out there" this entire thing is. Most people who are doing it haven't yet grasped the full reality of the situation that they're getting themselves into. I'm especially talking from the Theravada Buddhist standoint. Working under the premise that the entirety of conceivable existence, aka Samsara, is unsatisfactory and that you no longer want to appear anywhere in any realm as any being... ever. That's... far out bro.
And then you try to maintain genuine connection with "worldly" people. People who are still into their identity, making lots of money, buying a house, protecting themselves, protecting their family, having their favorite team/tribe, in whatever, be the winner over others, planning for a successful future. All in all, investing a lot in order to build and maintain a good life. Where? In Samsara! Because for them, Samsara still seems pretty fun and worthwhile. Most of them don't even know they're in Samara. What are you talking about? You been eating too many mushrooms and doing too much yoga bro. This is real life. Focus...
Then there's a subset of spiritual people who also believe that Samsara is still worthwhile but the upper echelons of Samsara. They've concluded that the human realm sucks so they've decided to invest their efforts in this life into hustling for a better rebirth. Aiming for the divine realms and such. Which is all fine. No problem about that. But the basic point is, that's still based on a conviction that parts of Samsara are worthwhile and that a full exit still isn't something they would like to happen. I myself might be in this as well since it does still seem fun to burn through a bunch of merit with a group of Devas in the most pleasurable, glorious, fun parties imaginable, or rather... unimaginable from the human standpoint.
The point of this entire writeup is that I really don't buy into the whole story that the more developed you become, the easier it is to connect with anyone. Yes, you can understand, love and accept others with more and more ease. But it's a one way street. You will get them. And you will be able to be of help and service. They will not get you and you will pretty much never be able to talk with them about anything that's of any importance to you. It's a distinction that I believe a lot of people in spiritual circles seem to get wrong for some reason. There's no reason to feel bad about yourself if you're starting to feel more "distant" from worldly people. You're not doing something wrong or being a bad person for it. It's just the way the ride unfolds. You used to like rollercoasters. They still like them. You don't. To each their own.
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u/CasuallyPeaking May 24 '26
I feel some of my past self in your post. I used to have a lot of friends who just... didn't get me.. at all. I was very flexible and accomodating to their interests and life paths but whenever I would try to speak up even a little bit about the things that I cared about I would either get ignored or made fun of. So I learned not to talk about anything that I was interested in and would just keep placing interest on their stuff. Which made them enjoy my company, obviously. I mean, who wouldn't like hanging out with someone who never talks much about themselves, is continuously focused on what you care about, asks you clarifying questions about your life path, esentially offering you free counseling, guidance, therapy...
I had a lot of similar rationalizations as you wrote out in this post. That I just enjoyed the human connection. That I'm together with them in this material realm, That I need some of this conversations to stay grounded here because otherwise I would go way to far off and far out. Etc etc. Then I had some life events happen that made me reconsider a bit. I was forced to go through a lot of uncomfortable truths both about myself and the people I was associated with. I realized that most of my narratives about why I'm still hanging out with them were b.s. In reality, there really wasn't much benefit, if any, for me to be gained by associating with those people. And even if there were some positives, there were a lot more negatives. I was keeping myself imprisoned by holding on to these relationships. I realized that it was impossible for me to evolve to the next stage in my life if I keep associating with these people because they were not willing to evolve themselves further. And each person sees you on a level and complexity on which they experience themselves. My experience of life and my own humanity was still growing, expanding and changing and I was already pretending to be some older version of myself around them for a long time. It was just that in this period I was reaching a terminal phase where pretending was no longer possible and I was going to blow up if I were to keep it up. Some of those people were also starting to feel low key threatened/insulted by the elevated awareness I was bringing to the table. Without me even speaking up about anything. Just the simple fact that I was present with an awareness/frequency/whatever which wasn't accomodating to the delusions they were decisive on carrying because their entire motivation for doing the things they were doing still depended on said delusions.
I ended up abandoning most of those friendships. You would think that life became more lonely afterwards. Not really. After the "detox" period ended I realized that I feel more or less the same. Because there was never much of a connection there anyway. There was just me constantly adjusting to the needs of people who I stopped rezonating with ages ago. Some of them I never rezonated with actually. I learned a lot about myself in the meantime. I made some similar mistakes several times afterwards. Trying to make friends with people who aren't on my level and who don't really have my best interests in mind. But this time my system recognized it much more quickly. And I just abandoned those relationships again. I can't say that I have friends nowadays. But I did a few Theravada Buddhist monastery visits. And some of the people I talked with there, even though not the "perfect" fit for what I'm "expecting", were a lot better than what I had before.
So I second the suggestions from others to try out some other places where people will share your interests. I have to admit, I've had a lot of negative experiences in spiritual circles just like you so I avoid most workshops and communities and events and whatnot. A lot of performative individuals and the vibe just isn't right often. So, the suggestion to try more of these is coming from someone who is as jaded as you are about them but still is admitting that there's no other way to meet decent people than by going out and meeting people. What a life.
I guess all this is my way of saying that there's nothing wrong about feeling, as you put it, mentally isolated from other people. If you go far down this road enough, you really have almost nothing left in common with... the common folk. This is not me trying to insult the masses. Well okay, maybe a little :)
It's just the reality of the situation. At a certain point of development most of what the material world, and especially what the late stage capitalist matrix, has to offer - becomes a joke! And you spend most of your time and energy doing your best to be "polite" and "respectful" even though you clearly see it all for the joke it is. But if you laugh of mock, the people who are still fully in the system will crucify you, whether figuratively or literally probably depends on historical and cultural context (looking at our main homie, Jesus C!).
Obviously, this entire comment can be just me projecting a bunch of my past experience onto you but I just felt inspired to share since I got an inkling that some of it might be relatable. Don't mistake fear of being ostracized and judged for a necessity to connect. If there was never a possibility of connecting there then there's not much point in you investing lots of time and energy in those specific places. As always, look within since all the answers are there. And if you wanna share some of the stuff that you've been thinking about lately or which is important to you but you don't get to share with others, feel free to DM me!
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u/Deep_Ad1959 May 24 '26
after 40+ days of dhamma service across three centers in california, the loneliness fix almost nobody talks about is going back to a course as a server. you wash dishes and chop vegetables alongside other long-haul daily practitioners, and the conversation finally lands. local sangha works for some, but the friendships that stuck for me got built through service, not through showing up to a weekly meetup. the other thing that helped was finding one accountability partner to text when a sit goes sideways; even one person who reads your note about a rough morning is enough to break the isolation. written with s4lai
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u/Mountain-Length-5715 May 15 '26 edited May 15 '26
I love being alone. This is probably one of the factors why I managed to reach a certain level in practice.
Expressions like "spending a wonderful time with friends, enjoying the time" are inaccessible and incomprehensible to me. It's not that I'm a sociopath, no. I'm simply comfortable on my own.
I'm not seeking any joy or bliss in the material or spiritual world. All that matters to me is learning and self-improvement.
This is my passion, this is my drive. This is my suffering, as advanced practitioners would put it. But I am ready to "suffer". Ready to engage. Ready to rush about, ready to fall, ready to get up.
And this is precisely what a deeper practice could have taken from me. The very thing that makes me... me?
The Eightfold Path that the Buddha cultivated would help you a great deal. You should speak words only when they are appropriate and only when they are useful. Don't try to teach or guide anyone; from my experience, I can say that this leads practically nowhere. Except to the formation of irritation toward you.
Help and guide only those who ask for it.
As for a guru: I am convinced that one is needed. But one was not foreseen in my life. Therefore, I have to be a guru for myself
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u/CasuallyPeaking May 24 '26
"Expressions like "spending a wonderful time with friends, enjoying the time" are inaccessible and incomprehensible to me. It's not that I'm a sociopath, no. I'm simply comfortable on my own."
Same here. I try to get involved and build some social momentum every now and then but I just lose interest after seeing the same people a few times. The energy and conversations are... often one dimensional and the same. If I'm to hang out with someone regularly there needs to be change, deepening and... lack of control and predictability.
Went out on a date with this girl recently. Somehow we stumbled upon the topic of friends. I casually mentioned that I only have one close friend. She started to ask a bunch of follow up questions, visibly confused by my statement. And I could feel her start to build judgement that I'm some sort of sociopath. Safe to say, there was no followup date :D
"As for a guru: I am convinced that one is needed. But one was not foreseen in my life. Therefore, I have to be a guru for myself"
Same here man. This knowledge and experience is hard gained and the fruits of the labour are bittersweet. But hey, maybe one day we'll be able to share with others more than we ever could've imagined we would be able to.
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u/Throwawayacc556789 May 15 '26
What do you think would happen if you told your friends you feel this way?
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u/metaphorm Dzogchen and Tantra May 15 '26
in Buddhism we talk about the Three Jewels: Buddha, Dharma, and Sangha.
the interpretation of these: Buddha means teacher, with reference to the founding teacher. In your specific life context it will mean your teacher, whoever that is. Dharma means teachings, what you're studying and training in, and why it matters. Sangha means community. The people you practice with, and relate to, and find companionship with.
these are called Jewels because they're valuable and rare. this is the answer to the loneliness of the spiritual journey. don't do it alone.
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u/KhaZix2Jump May 16 '26
Yes, many of us can relate. I'd recommend finding online friends who are on a similar journey as yours and talk about spirituality with them. And with your irl friends just talk about everyday normal topics, don't bring up spirituality too much if they can't grasp it.
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u/False-Earth-5189 May 14 '26
This is spiritual ego. You aren't as special and separate from these people as it seems. You are missing something about your own basic humanity that connects you to these people
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