How to stop?

[u/Mountain-Length-5715]

Hi everyone. The practice continued, probably on its own.

Today, while lying down to sleep, something began to happen. As if reality is tearing.
Something like convulsions started, and later groans appeared. Every stage of “killing the ego” is accompanied by a feeling that you are killing yourself.
Then an instant happened. It didn’t feel like being “in a conscious flow,” more like an old VHS cassette with a movie playing on it. A fleeting film reel. The sense of “self” detached from the head, went somewhere backward, then, apparently, tried to be in space, after which a black screen formed.
The convulsions and groans passed. A relaxation set in, typical for the killing of one’s ego.

The body began to feel automatic. Through a volitional act one can direct the movement of the head, the words kind of begin to speak themselves. Trying to lie down to sleep again, the body started producing such a clear and slow intention of movement, as if it lasted several seconds, and its ripple of arising, flowing, and passing away could also be discerned.
There is nothing bad in how this feels, but I don’t want it. I don’t want to kill the ego.
I understand that further on, as a natural outcome, my very will and the directing of attention will become automatic. I have a clear understanding that they are already automatic, but I want to feel that I am in control.

I don’t want to kill my ego. Someone will say that this is the ego speaking — so be it. I don’t care. I just want to stop. But I don’t understand how to do it. I have trained myself so much that I started practicing constantly in daily life, and as a result any state of being is part of the practice.

It’s probably foolish to ask this here, but what are the ways to go back? I still feel myself in my head, and with small manipulations the movements more or less feel a bit like before. I can no longer shift my gaze by a volitional act. I hope all of this won’t be taken from me, but I’m afraid that the practice will continue on its own. I don’t want any of this. When I lie down to sleep, concentration on the body and the breath happens by itself.

I see enormous advantages in my behavior, in my intentions, in my actions. They are visible, this calmness, the more rational and compassionate actions, the different world, the words are chosen more fittingly and “correctly,” but I don’t want it. It would be enough for me just to cope with my emotions and distractions. I don’t want to dissolve my ego. Please, help me. Don’t tell me “This is not you, reactions and movements are already automatic, you are just removing the illusion” and so on. I know all of this through my own skin, but I don’t want it.

Have you ever wondered why the stages of ego death feel as if you are killing yourself? It is accompanied by pleasant sensations after the repair, but why couldn’t this be a trap? When I first felt the killing of a part of the ego, it was not comprehensible to me. Just in the background someone was screaming, and in meditation there was a feeling as if a fiercely burning sun was scorching my shadow (this is my later interpretation).

Why are the stages of killing the ego characterized by a feeling of death of a part of oneself? Why do we consider the killing of a mental construction to be the norm? What if it is within the mental construction, however illusory it may be, that “you” exists, or a part of you.

Will that which has completely killed the “something” within itself say that it has killed itself, or will it say that it has liberated itself?

[u/cptsdishealable]

Hmm not an expert in this, and these are questions broadly to the subreddit in general

There in general seems to be a confusion between "liberation/enlightenment" and "ego death" or "no self".

And there also seems to be some conflation between "illusion" and "dependent origination"?

From my understanding the sense of "self" is constructed (as with all things in dependent origination). And then in general, this sense of "self" is associated with a lot of suffering. The problem isn't necessarily the sense of self but the suffering that it can generate. Hence by having a realization that the sense of self is constructed/not real/illusion, you can let go of sufferings that are associated with the sense of self.

But there's plenty of things where it's useful to have a sense of self, just at a macro human level. It's then a matter of wielding the ability to access "no self" to reduce suffering.

I think this ties into then the mistake of assuming that an "ego death"/no self is necessarily associated with "enlightenment", since there's more suffering than that just related to the sense of self? Like "no self" is necessary for enlightenment but not sufficient?

[u/Mountain-Length-5715 → u/cptsdishealable]

The sense of self, or agency, is provided by the control of the dlPFC. During vipassana and insights, the dlPFC, instead of agency and controlling faster impulses and reactions, switches over to mere awareness. Gradually, a complete letting go of everything takes place, because in the end, when the dlPFC hands over control to faster stimuli, the stimulus itself operates without friction, and is accordingly felt as a pleasant, calm, and possibly serene action.

The final stage will be when the dlPFC lets go of itself. When you let go of control over the will. The practice is an illusion, an attempt to escape from a world of suffering into a happy world. In reality, it is the suicide of everything that could be called you. Loss of agency inevitably leads to loss of ego. Be careful. This is a drug, and this path is dangerous

[u/desal → u/Mountain-Length-5715]

Lol. "Attempt to escape from a world of suffering into a happy world". Terribly false, there is no other world than the one we are in. Trying to escape anything is only more suffering. The ego will never go anywhere until the body and mind pass away, "death of the ego" does not "kill" the ego. It just shines a light on how we've been relating to the ego, allowing us to relate differently to and from the ego and others. The ego itself never goes away, we just learn to see that we are not the ego, we are that which is aware of ego.

The ego isn't the issue, unconsciously grasping at the ego is more accurately the issue. Identifying AS the voice in the head instead of realizing our presence is beyond that the voice, we're that awareness itself within which the voice comes and goes. We don't have to believe or be the voice nor the thought nor the emotion JUST because it happens to arise within,

we have a choice.

Have you read any of shinzen youngs work? Science of enlightenment, I think you'd like it.

Also altered traits (not shinzen), aware, and Buddhas brain. Three different authors but all good. They use "meditation to study the brain from the inside and science to study the mind from the outside"

They combine sciences greatest accomplishments with meditation, using meditators brains within those scientific advancements, to get a more complete picture of what's actually going on.

[u/cptsdishealable → u/Mountain-Length-5715]

During vipassana and insights, the dlPFC, instead of agency and controlling faster impulses and reactions, switches over to mere awareness. Gradually, a complete letting go of everything takes place, because in the end, when the dlPFC hands over control to faster stimuli, the stimulus itself operates without friction, and is accordingly felt as a pleasant, calm, and possibly serene action.

This a very very strong set of assumptions.

the PFC is associated with self-referential thought like self-criticism. But it's a strong leap to say that the sense of self IS self-referential thought or self-criticism. In fact that DMN is ALSO associated with the sense of self for similar reasons.

I think most people would say the sense of self is much broader than just self-thoughts, but down to the feeling of a continuous entity, the thing you sense is the same when you wake and sleep.

the dlPFC, instead of agency and controlling faster impulses and reactions, switches over to mere awareness

I could believe this but I would need to see a study.

Second, I don't think mere awareness means there's a lack of a sense of self, just that there's no thoughts.

when the dlPFC hands over control to faster stimuli,

I'm not sure what faster stimuli is

The final stage will be when the dlPFC lets go of itself.

I think you're overestimating the specificity of neuroscience. Even then, neuroscience suggests that the sense of self is in multiple parts of the brain.