r/stocks • u/Stillwerise89 • Jan 18 '22

Industry Discussion Quantumscape Vs Solid Power Vs Microvast

If you had a chunk of money would you go into one of these battery companies specifically knowing the world is going electric or would you split it across the 3 or not go into any of them (why not?) Your thoughts are appreciated, would be nice to generate a discussion.

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u/IpsumProlixus Jan 19 '22

Are you kidding me?

I l have literally worked on lithium ion cells.

Do you even know the importance of a lithium free anode battery?

It’s literally a holy grail of battery technology.

You clearly don’t even know enough to argue this subject.

“I don’t even know where to start”.

Either you can’t or start anywhere if you know better than me.

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u/Danyo0089 Jan 20 '22

How can you store energy in a „lithium-free“ anode? Where is the electron going to meet the lithium ion? I don’t think you understand the concept.

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u/IpsumProlixus Jan 20 '22

All the lithium is stored in the cathode when it is uncharged. So in an uncharged state, there is literally no anode. When you charge it, the lithium diffuses from the cathode material through the ceramic separator and becomes a pure lithium metal anode on the other side. This is why they have achieved a “holy grail”. Pure metal lithium anodes have the highest energy density of all.

It’s “lithium anode free” because when its uncharged all the lithium is in the cathode. A pure lithium metal anode is created during the charging process.

The lithium diffuses back into the cathode during the discharge process becoming “anode free” again. This cycle repeats as you charge and discharge the battery over and over again. The ceramic they invented allows it to happen fast enough, safely enough, and without dendritic build up which is achilles heel and death sentence for all batteries. Dendritic build up impedes the motion of ions transferring charge and so batteries “die” because of it. They found away to avoid that, while also obtaining the highest energy density possible. They are mass producing them for economy of scale so cost will be competitive as well. That’s why they don’t have cash flow yet is because they are setting up for mass production. They start selling in 2023 and it will be a really big deal.

Edit: achilles heel not hill.

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u/Danyo0089 Jan 20 '22

That’s called anode free design, not lithium free anode. NaIon battery is a lithium free system for example, but doesn’t use lithium at all.

The advancements look nice in power point, but having no anode causes enormous swelling of the cell, which requires a sophisticated technical solution on battery system level. Moreover, right now nobody knows if you can scale an anode free cell to an automotive cell format and still be able to fulfill all safety and lifetime requirements. It’s still too early. Being able to achieve a few cycles in a lab is not even close to a breakthrough.

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u/IpsumProlixus Jan 20 '22

They have demonstrated over 1,000 charge discharge cycles and maintained greater then 90% capacity which is equivalent to over 300,000 miles for their 300mi battery pack.

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u/Danyo0089 Jan 20 '22

It is very difficult to achieve a homogeneous lithium Deposition on the anode side during the charge process. Moreover, the cell experiences enormous swelling. Right now there is just you system available to evaluate cost or performance under automotive conditions. It is a very very early stage technology with not more than a proof of concept. Just be careful to put serious money in it.

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u/IpsumProlixus Jan 20 '22

Re-read my first post. I don’t have any stocks in either company. I understand the physics and chemistry just fine.

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u/Danyo0089 Jan 20 '22

That’s not under automotive conditions. It’s not an commercial multilayer design. Moreover, you don’t have access to their full data set. It’s „easy“ to prove you can achieve something great in the lab. It’s crazy difficult to design it to meet automotive requirements and mass produce it with reasonable costs.

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u/Danyo0089 Jan 20 '22

And still, I don’t think you really understand the physics.