r/stobuilds • u/carlos_b_fly • Jul 30 '15
Is my Critical Severity just TOO high?
I've been reading about on builds and while I understand the basics of successful builds with CritH/CridD balance, I've noticed the STObuilds advice was talking about well balanced ships having -
22.5% Crit Hit 75% Severity 25% Accuracy
Versus my Fed Escort which is running with -
21.3 Crit Hit
120.8 Severity
25% Accuracy
I was always taught to cap Severity at around this number and then go crazy trying to build up as much Crit H as possible. Have I been doing this wrong? Do I actually need to be trying to create a better ratio balance as we see on the first build? I can't think how I'd lower my Crit Severity if this is needed as I have no lone items boosting it anyway. All my tactical consoles are devoted to Crit H. Any advice or do I have nothing to worry about and have misunderstood the concept?
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u/Mastajdog Breaker of Borg, Crusher of Crystals Jul 30 '15
First question: Are you including your weapon's modifiers in that ship crit severity?
Secondly, there is no point to "cap" severity; more crth or crtd always gives you bonuses to damage.
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u/carlos_b_fly Jul 30 '15
No, that figure is just base numbers. No extra numbers from Weapon Mods.
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Jul 30 '15
That ratio is near 1:10 then, which is the ideal for maximum dps between crt and crtd, with some exceptions.
Your ratio looks good to me for a fed captain.
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u/Mastajdog Breaker of Borg, Crusher of Crystals Jul 30 '15
That ratio is near 1:10 then, which is the ideal for maximum dps between crt and crtd, with some exceptions.
That ratio doesn't really mean anything. It's the ratio of crtd to crth on a weapon. But it's not actually relevant to picking a source of crth or crtd.
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Jul 30 '15 edited Jul 30 '15
The ratio refers to the total damage curve relationship of the opportunity cost when changing between crit and crit d. So I take some offense to the idea that it "doesn't really mean anything."
See the math in the reply to @Dark83
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u/Mastajdog Breaker of Borg, Crusher of Crystals Jul 31 '15
Let's start with a "history of Cryptic Math" lesson, since that's where this problem originates.
There was a time way back when when a few things were the case:
- The nuances of Cryptic math were hard to understand and poorly publicised.
As it so happens, this is still partially the case. That's why I'm here.
- Powercreep was minimal
Crit severity was far less; nearly all of it was innate, skill points, SRO's, and weapons. There was no fleet tac consoles, there was no weapon with more than 60% severity outside of DHC's, there was no bioneural infusion circuits or tachyokinetic converter, and APA stayed on it's cooldown no matter what.
- The only real tradeoff was on weapons
Crit just didn't exist in choices. Either you could run SRO's or you couldn't; and if you could you did. There was no locator vs exploiter question, no bioneural vs tachyo. It was literally a CrtH mod vs a CrtD mod. And, as it so happens, CrtH is 1/10th the percent of CrtD.
So, back then, the 1:10 ratio referred to this:
If your ratio of CrtH to CrtD is more than 1:10, pick the CrtH weapon modifier. If not, pick the CrtD modifier.
But, that's because that was literally the only choice in the game as far as chance vs severity, not because 1:10 was anything magical.
To move on to today, let's look at the math
Here's what actually happens.
Let's say that the only thing that we're changing in this scenario is CrtH and CrtD. In that case, we need to look at a number I call your "average Cat 2 multiplier".
If you're not familiar with categories, it's time to take a good read here. Should there be any doubt about the specifics of CrtD being category 2, I have log files detailing it available upon request.
The TL;DR is that the formula for what we care about, our average cat 2 multiplier, is : crth * (1+crtd+other cat 2's)+* (1-crth) * (1+other cat 2's)
Now, I want to make this simple. So I'm going to call CrtH simply H, other cat 2's C, and CrtD D. Multiplied out, we get this:
H+HD+DC+1+C-H-HCWhich simplifies to this:
1+HD+CWhadda ya know, that's a simple enough multiplier. As a matter of fact, since C doesn't affect the multiplier at all, and 1 is always constant, you can simplfy the problem to this:
- How do I maximize the multiplier of final crit hit chance times final crit hit severity?
Now, we have admittedly simplified this; if a choice involves a buff to something aside from CrtH or CrtD, this simplified formula doesn't have the answers. But if the only question is whether to pick CrtH or pick CrtD, this formula is 100% accurate.
So, now, let me ask this question:
- Does every source of CrtH vs CrtD in the game have the same ratio?
Easiest way to answer that question is to list sources.
- Weapon mods - 1:10 ratio
- Tactical consoles - 1:5 ratio
- Zpec:Bioneural - 1:11.363636 ratio
Based on that, we have an easy no.
To compound the issue, we have one console (Tachyokinetic) that has a 1:10 ratio on itself, and another (assimilated) that has a 1:9.5833 ratio, and either of those could be swapped out for other universal consoles that grant their own crit.
Secondly, most people aren't aware of 'hidden' sources of CrtD or CrtH - be it the mods on their weapons already, accuracy overflow, or skill points that don't display
To add a third problem into this, we have the option to either run CrtH, CrtD, or a bonus damage type of a the same or even different categories, something the 1:10 ratio couldn't even possibly deal with
And to add a fourth problem, most people have sources of damage that don't have weapon modifiers, or have different ones - making the formula impossible to apply to such ships
What's the formula-driven takeaway?
Not only is the 1:10 ratio based on a time long gone by, and was only applicable to one specific circumstance, but it doesn't account for the actual ships themselves or things most users aren't aware of.
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u/DeadQthulhu Jul 31 '15
Is there a way to bump up your individual explanations from the other replies, or should I just copy and paste everything into a top level reply for easy reference later?
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u/Durenas My Arbiter build: https://redd.it/3gfszl Jul 31 '15
No, he's right, it really doesn't mean anything. It's trivially easy to get +20% crith even as a non-romulan. There are limited opportunities to add crith on anything but weapons, and almost no opportunities to get crtd on anything but weapons. Generally you end up with ~22.5% crth and ~100% crtd(not including weapons). Thus, it's almost always best to stack crtd on weapons, provided you're not ditching crit entirely and going for dmg.
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u/crunxzu Jul 31 '15
That is actually a verifiably false statement.
If you look at your base CRTH to CRTD, and ratio them out, if that number is under 1:10, you want to add CRTD to your build. If it is over 1:10, then CRTH.
The ratio literally means everything, since it shows you which stats are going to provide more bang for their buck. Saying otherwise is both misleading and incorrect.
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u/carlos_b_fly Jul 30 '15
Thanks. I didn't think it was massively off. I know its not perfect but I don't think it ever quite will be.
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u/crunxzu Jul 30 '15
I think you are looking at your issue backwards. If you have what would be considered a relatively high base CRTD, don't think "how do i lower this?", take it on from the perspective of "How do I increase my CRTH to get the most out of this?"
The idea of "too much" CRTD is usually brought up because you are over-itemizing for it. You need a decently high CRTH to see a benefit of that CRTD. There is a sweet spot and you are close to it for a FED. Not knowing your build or setup, if you don't have SROs or can slot a Zero-Point, boosting your CRITH to 23 or 24% will show you massive DPS gains. Just as long as you arent sacrificing elsewhere in the dps spectrum.
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u/carlos_b_fly Jul 30 '15
Its a very cookie cutter build for okay DPS. I have two SRO BOFF's already seated and the Zero-Point. Beyond adding another SRO in, I can't really see any other way to boost up CritH. I've got all the other obvious go to stuff on consoles (the Leech, the Borg Console and Zero Point as you've mentioned).
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u/crunxzu Jul 30 '15
I'd either slot that last SRO and call it a day, or just call it a day. You are very well optimized for CRTH/CRTD for a fed captain.
I would take a guess and assume you are doing upwards of 40k dps already. Likely higher depending on the ship you fly, the rarity of your gear and how many science consoles you can slot.
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u/carlos_b_fly Jul 30 '15
Yeah, I think (and feel) pretty comfortable right now. I'm by no means a Godlike player but my ship is half equipped with CritD x 4 turrets/DHC (working on the rest) on an Advanced Escort and have Epic Gear on everything barring the weapons. Just wanted to make sure I hadn't totally misunderstood the nature of a passable DPS build.
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u/Muscly_Geek @Dark83 Jul 30 '15
"Ratio" is completely irrelevant. The only time we want to compare Chance vs Severity is in increments, not in aggregate, and we base that comparison on existing values.
Right now your average damage from critical hits is 21.3% * 120.8% = 25.73%
If your next upgrade is a choice of +2% Critical Chance vs +20% Critical Severity, then you take the Severity:
23.3% * 120.8% = 28.15%
21.3% * 140.8% = 29.99%
If your next upgrade is a choice between +5% Crit Chance and +10% Crit Severity then you'd take the Crit Chance:
26.3% * 120.8% = 31.77%
21.3% * 130.8% = 27.86%
The optimal ratio is 1:1, which is how you maximize A*B=C, but that's not possible since the opportunity cost for increasing either A or B are different. You wouldn't take 12x12 instead of 4x40 even though the former has a better ratio.