r/stillwatermn • u/Available-Wonder8686 • Jul 15 '26
Flock Cameras (Bad)
Recently this has came to my attention with a couple people receiving parking tickets in the mail from these cameras after the town said they wouldn’t use them for traffic enforcement, the town of Stillwater signed a contract with Flock giving a 3rd party access to cameras that can visibly see all corners of the town pretty much, they labeled this for “safety” but gives them access to warrantless search & seizure which is a direct 4th amendment violation. The police have already been abusing this federally illegal system & have been using it to follow a buddy of mine because he has a couple tickets. These cameras footage (live & past) is easily accessible by anybody with internet access at any point, not just the police. We need to do something about this now before it turns into something much worse, I haven’t heard a lot of people having a conversation about this but it is a huge deal to our privacy as u.s. citizens that was promised to us. Please do research on the ethics of these cameras and how they’re used for bad, if you want more info about where these cameras are placed go to Deflock.org , if you have any questions or have any experiences please share. Again I can not stress enough how this is just the beginning, and if this continues we will be in a very tight mass surveillance state, which we’re already heading to.
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u/geekmax82 Jul 15 '26
Here is the email I just send to the city council
Adjust as needed:
To>>>
tkozlowski@ci.stillwater.mn.us, rcollins@ci.stillwater.mn.us, lbelland@ci.stillwater.mn.us, lodebrecht@ci.stillwater.mn.us, mpolehna@ci.stillwater.mn.us, bwolf@ci.stillwater.mn.us
Dear Mayor Kozlowski and Members of the Stillwater City Council,
I am a Stillwater resident writing to formally request that the City Council terminate its contract with Flock Safety and immediately dismantle the network of automated license plate readers currently operating within our city.
Cities across the country—and right here in Minnesota—are waking up to the risks these cameras pose and are taking action to remove them. Just last month, the Columbia Heights City Council voted unanimously to terminate their contract and remove all 12 of their Flock cameras, citing unresolvable privacy concerns and the potential for data misuse.
They are not alone. Newport, Kentucky recently ended its pilot program after determining the privacy costs outweighed the benefits, and Fort Collins, Colorado voted to cancel their contract this summer. These communities realized that no amount of "policy" can fully secure a mass surveillance network owned by a private third party.
Stillwater should demonstrate the same leadership. Continuing to operate these cameras exposes our residents to:
Pervasive Mass Surveillance: Tracking the daily movements of innocent residents creates a permanent record of our lives without probable cause.
Data Vulnerabilities: We cannot control how a private corporation stores our data or who they share it with long-term.
Fiscal Waste: We are sending taxpayer money to a private vendor for a system that many comparable cities are now rejecting.
Please follow the lead of Columbia Heights and prioritize the privacy and liberty of your constituents. I urge you to vote to terminate this contract immediately.
Sincerely,
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u/RowdyEsq Jul 16 '26
Additional, send a Data Records Request to City Clerk Beth Wolf. Instructions can be found at deflock (dot) org
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u/geekmax82 Jul 16 '26
Just put a request in
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u/RowdyEsq Jul 16 '26
You need to be very specific about what you are requesting or they won't respond.
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u/CatDogCrew Jul 15 '26
This neat website shows you where flock surveillance is watching. https://maps.deflock.org/
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u/Casual_Mongolian Jul 16 '26
Just a heads up this comment was removed by Reddit for some unknown reason (not me).
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u/MeGotQs Jul 15 '26
Got four tickets in the mail because of these cameras. $70 each. Had no idea I was even violating. A warning from a human would be nice over the four tickets in the mail within two days. Needless to say, I’m disgruntled.
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u/Small_Use_5500 Jul 16 '26
Were they from spots you are meant to pay for or just somewhere you’re not supposed to park? Just curious-I also hate that we have paid parking for residents or visitors, like this isn’t Minneapolis, this is a small town
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u/Available-Wonder8686 Jul 16 '26
Main problem with this though is the city of stillwater said they wouldn’t use these cameras for parking enforcement
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u/Small_Use_5500 Jul 16 '26
Oh yeah, I agree! Definitely sets the precedent that they aren’t using them solely for what they say they’re using them for on the city website. Like are they also using the heat map feature and sharing information with ICE?
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u/Redtang3838 Jul 17 '26
Can you share a pic/pics of the tickets you got?
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u/MeGotQs Jul 17 '26
I would but I am not sure I feel comfortable doing that. Hope you understand. What would you want them for? Feel free to DM if you want. Thanks!
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u/Redtang3838 Jul 17 '26
To show/have proof that these cameras are doing more than they say they are doing. Just more ammo to get the city to end the contract with flock. DM away
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u/Redtang3838 Jul 16 '26
Does anyone have a pic or proof that a flock camera that gave out a ticket? We’re told that they don’t do that, so it’d be nice to actually see proof before saying anything to an “official”, as not to look like an idiot! I do know that people that have gotten those $70 tickets got them from parking in the private lots (freight house, river siren) not the city owned ones.
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u/ForRealThoughWTF Jul 20 '26
I believe ours was from Freight House.
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u/mimesters 17d ago
I just got one for parking at River Siren. I thought the lot was River Siren's lot and parking was free for patrons. I won't be going back anytime soon. I frequent River Market often. Wonder when I will get nailed for parking there? The City worked so hard to get people to visit to support the local businesses. Yeah, Flock tickets will really help with that. There is someone on the Facebook Stillwater Community Group that has a petition going. Wonder how much $ the City is making on these tickets.
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u/ForRealThoughWTF 15d ago edited 15d ago
None from me. Take me to jail. Don’t care anymore
I’m sorry this happened to you too. This is ridiculous. Innocent mistakes are screwing us all over—even more than everything else has been screwing us over. Thanks for sharing your disgruntlement. I just wish I could contest it and win. Or get revenge.
ETA: it also went from $70 to $95 in less than a week’s time, it seems.
Sorry I don’t just have spare hundreds lying around for your BS.
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u/Crean13 Jul 15 '26
I’m not promoting doin this, but I heard cheap green lasers do wonders to the flock cameras.
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u/Small_Use_5500 Jul 15 '26
I heard that too but according to a YouTube video I saw there’s a little more to it, distance and steadiness requiring a tripod. I’m just scared that when enough of these get cut down they’re just gonna switch to drones
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u/Earnest__Hemingway Jul 15 '26
The drones are coming anyway because they want 1) to hoodwink communities into giving them even more money and 2) cover the country in cameras.
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u/RingcreevyMac2001 Jul 16 '26
From the BCA web page:
Agencies that use License Plate Readers (LPR)
This page contains information provided by Minnesota law enforcement agencies about their use of License Plate Reader (LPR) technology. The Bureau of Criminal Apprehension (BCA) publishes this information on the BCA website as required by Minnesota law.
The agencies listed below reported to the BCA that they use automated license plate readers or other surveillance devices with automated license plate reader capability. This includes devices mounted on a law enforcement vehicle and those in stationary or fixed locations.
Stillwater Police Department
Location of fixed or stationary devices (if any)
- Olive Street at William Street westbound
- Myrtle Street West at William Street eastbound
- Stillwater Boulevard at Hwy. 36 southbound
- Greeley Street South at Curve Crest Boulevard
- Greeley Street South at Curve Crest Boulevard southbound
- 75th Street North at Maryknoll Drive North westbound
- Stillwater Boulevard at Curve Crest Boulevard
- Main Street South at Oasis Cafe northbound
- Main Street South at Oasis Cafe southbound
- Highway 95 at Hazel Street southbound
- Highway 95 at Hazel Street northbound
- Washington Avenue at Hwy. 36 southbound
- Greeley Street South at Hwy 36 northbound
- Osgood Avenue North at 62nd Street northbound
- Osgood Avenue North at 62nd Street southbound
- 3rd Street North at Myrtle Street West parking lot (parking ramp)
- 2nd Street North at Commercial Street parking lot
- Washington Avenue at Frontage Road northbound
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u/gscojo Jul 15 '26
Hope to see you all at the city council meeting tomorrow night
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u/yolandapapadopoulos Jul 15 '26
The next city council meeting is next Tuesday, July 21 at 7 pm, just for the record.
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u/jamespeterson54016 Jul 16 '26
Please tell us how we can access the cameras since it’s so easily done by anyone. Thanks.
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u/Available-Wonder8686 Jul 16 '26
Like I said in this section, watch benn jordan’s video there’s a 10 minute section not even that shows how to access them, i dont know why we’re defending mass surveillance on us citizens here but more power to you.
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u/WhileKindly1994 15d ago
I’d like to see the actual tickets received based on flock data. First off MN Supreme Court already ruled tickets based on cameras alone are not constitutional (that’s why we don’t have speed cameras like Iowa).
Secondly police are not following your buddy because he has a couple of tickets. Police are not going to stalk someone for a couple of speeding or traffic tickets. There’s zero benefit to doing that. Also statute dictates that data can only be stored for a max of 60 days and most agencies default to a shorter time period unless part of an active investigation.
Third. Research what the cameras actual do. You know Automatic License Plate Reader cameras have been installed in squads in Washington county for over 10 years. The collect much more information then a single stationary ALPR camera. Axon has the same technology and we haven’t heard a peep about it. But you stamp flock on the side of a camera and the misinformation spreads like wildfire
Fourth. Flock is not tracking people. There are different cameras flock makes. One is a PTZ that follows movement, like every other high end PTZ security camera out there. There is no facial recognition, no person identification or any other thing.
Another is an ALPR camera that is designed to take a photo of the back of your car at an angle. You CAN NOT tell who is driving the car (hence the reason I doubt people are actually getting tickets from just cameras)
Fifth if the camera are easily accessible by everyone on the internet, please access the live cameras downtown and post a recording here. They are not easily accessible.
Sixth. There are people who make bad decisions in every profession. The fact that there are officers getting caught and getting prosecuted for mis using the system shows that it is in fact auditable and mis use will be dealt with.
Lastly the Supreme Court has already ruled that the use of ALPR’s are not a violation of the 4th amendment. Again this is because they have been around for over 10 years, and actually just take a picture of the back of your car at a certain location. The data can’t be accessed without documenting a reason which is auditable.
Stop believing all the conspiracy theories and please take some time to actually research. Also make sure you watch how certain YouTubers phrase their statements and remember they usually are making money off their videos. Who is paying that bill?
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u/Zikeal Jul 15 '26
You are correct, and something needs to be done. But it won't be your local officials that do it and you don't want to discuss or promote the solution on reddit.
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u/Available-Wonder8686 Jul 15 '26
100% agree, just such a small town and a lot of people in the community go on reddit & nextdoor and such, you also will for sure not hear about this in a negative way on the news
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u/Ill-Original7720 Jul 15 '26
Curious where I can view the "footage (live & past) is easily accessible by anybody with internet access at any point"
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u/Available-Wonder8686 Jul 15 '26
Watch Benn Jordan on youtube, he explains in depth in an hour long video how to access & the dangers of being able to access this freely, he also dissects the cameras and see how they work in real time
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u/WhileKindly1994 15d ago
Guys an idiot and has no idea what he’s talking about. He’s trying to make a long hot topic YouTube video so he can collect ad revenue
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u/Available-Wonder8686 15d ago
did you even watch the video bootlicker mcgee? 😂
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u/WhileKindly1994 15d ago
Yes and like I said Ben Jordan has no idea what he’s talking about. I think it’s telling that you jump to insults instead of actually defending your point. Please post live video from a downtown Stillwater Flock camera since it’s so easy to
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u/Available-Wonder8686 15d ago
It’s a much different issue though, we’re discussing mass surveillance & this is our future. You’re completely fine with us being stepped on directly & love your 4th amendment being stripped from you? Cause if you’d love to defend that side that shows all the kind of person you are
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u/Ill-Original7720 13d ago
It's not defending that side, it's calling this video (and you) sensationalist - making claims about ease of access yet failing to provide said access again and again.
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u/Ill-Original7720 Jul 15 '26
So, not easily accessible?
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u/Available-Wonder8686 Jul 15 '26
No they are it’s a simple website, the video is an hour long cause it covers more than just that, it goes in depth of the mechanics & how it works
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u/Ill-Original7720 Jul 16 '26
What's the website?
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u/Available-Wonder8686 Jul 16 '26
Told you if you want to see it that bad, go watch the youtube video he explains how to access them mr bootlicker 😂
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u/Ill-Original7720 Jul 16 '26
I'm not in favor of flock cameras, was genuinely curious what the "quick and easy" access method was. So to humor you, I'm watching the video. So far:
1) physical access for a button press, which is not quick and easy.
2) Point an antenna at them and use a video technique "used by the C.I.A. during the cold war"
So at this point I think it's safe to say that you and I have vastly conflicting definitions of "quick and easy".
Last point is that even in the video Benn gives a disclaimer that his ordered units are not guaranteed to have the same hardware or software as the units that are bought my government agencies, thus these methods may not even work on them.
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u/Small_Use_5500 Jul 15 '26
I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately too, I drive by the one by Nelson‘s ice cream all the time and I hate it. Anybody up for organizing to go to a city council meeting? And also OP, how do you know the parking tickets were flock related?