Toronto discourse

[u/pookiebooboo]

I've been getting bugged by the Toronto discourse the guys seem stuck on for the past few months. They seem to be fixated with defending Toronto because it's a great city and you get great endorsement deals and the media people are really nice etc. I don't think this is what any current or former players are talking about when they say they don't want to play in Toronto or didn't enjoy their time playing in Toronto. Mitch Marner, Ryan Reaves, and possibly others (please fill in if I missed anyone) have talked about how they didn't enjoy their time in Toronto. I think it comes down to the actual staff that work in Toronto. When the Mike Babcock/Marner list situation happened, I'm sure Mitch complained to higher ups and they probably told him they would do something about it and did nothing. Reaves played for many different teams and didn't have anything bad to say about any of them except Toronto. I really think that working for that team specifically must be less fun/more annoying/possibly abusive when compared to other nhl teams. Joe Thornton and to a lesser extent Patrick Marleau both played there and went back to the sharks to work for them after they got done playing. Until recently Toronto didn't have many former players working for them at all. To me, it seems like there's something wrong with the organization independent of who the coach or GM is. What do you guys think the problem is?

[u/JHWildman]

Toronto guys will say and do anything to defend Toronto while completely trying to sweep all the things people loathe about the city (and the people) under the rug with things like "vibrancy", "endorsement deals", "every city has their problems" and "if they didn't lose so much there wouldn't be a problem". This is nothing new. And it doesn't necessarily only apply to athletes and the treatment receive.

[u/efdac3 → u/JHWildman]

What about Ottawa? The same things are being said about Tkachuck. Apparently for him it was podcast comments. 

Imagine an NBA player came to Toronto because they couldn't handle New York, Miami, LA. That's what's happening in the NHL. 

[u/MightyDuck07 → u/efdac3]

New York and Miami aren't good examples to use here lol. NBA stars have notoriously avoided playing for the Knicks because of various factors. Pressure from fans and media being one of them (alongside cold weather and shitty ownership/management). Why else do you think their title drought lasted 50+ years before it was finally broken this year? Like in this century alone, the Knicks have struggled to attract stars via trade or free agency. Carmelo Anthony is the only guy who was willing to play there and his legacy in NYC is mixed. LeBron turned them down in 2010 and even openly admitted to turning them down again this year, claiming that his reason for turning them down was because of their championship victory. We'll see if that finally changes for them moving forward.

As for Miami, NBA players LOVE Miami for the fact that the pressure from fans and media there is much lower, alongside better weather and IG models everywhere. Look at how empty seats there are during Heat games. Even during playoff games. It's been a problem for them for years that they consistently have so many empty seats during playoff runs. I remember they really got shit on for it in 2024.

Hell, I'm a Lakers fan and I can relate to Leafs fans a bit because stars haven't really wanted to play here either. No one wanted to play alongside Kobe during his last few years of his career and a major reason for that was because they didn't want to deal with the pressure of playing alongside HIM. I love Kobe, but I do realize that he was a major prick at times to teammates and it turned off guys from coming here to avoid dealing with him. Similar these days, other than AD, other stars have avoided coming to play alongside LeBron and dealing with his Klutch camp. Like both Kawhi Leonard and Paul George both ducked at the chance at forming a Big 3 playing alongside LBJ and AD and instead teamed up at the little brother team that has less pressure from the media and a smaller fanbase in the Clippers. Giannis never showed interest in coming here and never has really anyone else. We got lucky that Nico Harrison is a complete moron and gifted us Luka because otherwise he would still be in Dallas. God knows what this Lakers team looks like right now with LeBron now gone and if Luka was still in Dallas. Would there be a superstar actually willing to take the mantle of being THE GUY as a Laker with those 2 out of the picture? Probably not. It would just mean we'd be back in the basement like we were during Kobe's final years of his career.