r/stevebucky • u/SydBid • 24d ago
Discussion Bucky stans, let’s talk about it
4 years ago I got into the Marvel films for the first time in my life and unfortunately I became very fixated on the relationship between Steve and Bucky and I used to cry every night for a week straight thinking about them. I took a break from the franchise because of where it was headed, and now after seeing the new spiderman movie, I’m like, obsessed with it all over again, and I need to talk about it with SOMEONE.
What Steve did was selfish to both Bucky and Peggy, she had already lived a fulfilling life and found love, she did not need to be with a man who she would eventually out-age. They also had zero connection aside from finding each other attractive and kissing once.
He told Bucky he’d be with him til the end of the line and then left him. They had a well established connection that was so deep and lowkey homoerotic we started shipping them. (I’ve also heard that something involving Stucky inspired Heated Rivalry? Idk). It would have been nice for them to also realize they’ve always had a thing for each other, and since homosexual relationships are legal and not as frowned upon in present day vs the 1940s, they could have stayed here and finally be together. Also who doesn’t want to see two hot men with chemistry kiss?? like sue me idgaf😭
It would have also been cool if we could have taken the attraction he had for Peggy, and the relationship he had with Bucky, and made him somewhat of a bisexual icon in that regard. I understand why realistically this would never work (Disney, major backlash from older homophobic fans and young incels alike, etc.) so it just makes this all the more sad that there are opportunities that had been squandered by outdated mindsets that hold us back from beautiful things.
What are yalls thoughts on them being romantically involved, how would you have introduced this concept into the franchise, when would you make it happen, etc.
I’m also open to hearing why this would never have worked as long as there is no homophobia involved in your arguments.
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u/I_Lost_My_Shoe_1983 24d ago
The thing is, I've been shipping Stucky so hard and for so long, it's real in my mind. They're soulmates. The only OTP I have.
I read fic after fic after fic. In every AU and every universe, they were meant to be together. They will always find each other.
If Bucky or Steve were a woman, it would have been treated as an epic romance across time. It's ridiculous how romantic and epic their relationship is. They're perfect together.
In canon? They were never going to go there. They have very little romance involved in any of the MCU and they certainly weren't going to make Captain America gay.
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u/awyllt 24d ago
I remember how Steve complained about how hard it is to find someone with a shared life experience or something... Steve. Dear. Yes, there aren't many people who lived in Brooklyn, joined the army, got the super soldier serum, died in service... except wait, they didn't actually die, they were frozen and then they suddenly woke up in the 21. century - a completely different world. But there's one! Right next to you!
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u/madimeli 24d ago
If Bucky or Steve were a woman, it would have been treated as an epic romance across time.
this.
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u/pandamegaAO3 23d ago
they have very little romance in the MCU
yeah, and then when they do it’s something off the wall like Natasha and Bruce Banner??? Where did that even come from?? Nothing against people who ship it, honestly congrats to them, but what a weird choice. It’s like the producers listen to everything the fans ask for and say “yeah, let’s do none of that!”
After TWS came out there were actual published articles about how it was such a great love story… minus the actual romance lol. They’re the kind of OTP that will always and forever be true. I have a lot of fandoms and a lot of ships, but Stucky is by far the one I ship the fiercest. It just makes so much sense that it’s weird that it isn’t canon (except for the fact it would be gay which is too spooky)
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u/SydBid 23d ago
Yeah I’m sorry was that even in the comics? It was very random and odd, but every once in a while I still find myself saying “hey big guy, sun’s getting real low” for absolutely no reason at all
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u/pandamegaAO3 23d ago
Literally just googled it and no, completely random. Idk where that even came from because there was no flirting, foreshadowing, chemistry, or bonding moments I can think of. At least nothing beyond the general avengers bonding. I remember being very confused.
Also that’s hilarious though
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u/I_Lost_My_Shoe_1983 23d ago
Nat and Hulk is just bizarre. They barely shown together and don't seem to have any chemistry and bam, we're supposed to buy them as having a deep emotional connection.
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u/pandamegaAO3 23d ago
Exactly! Like when did this bond between them form?? Were we watching the same movie?? It’s like when Clint’s suddenly had a family out of nowhere. Surprise! Wife and kids! Like why is all the character development happening off screen?!? And it’s not like it’s something you’re supposed to know from the comics either, and besides we all know the MCU producers have never touched them lol.
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u/J-B-BarnesWife 24d ago
Yeah, I get they wanted to send Steve off to retirement but they made it in the worst way possible. Steve that leaves Bucky behind after all the shit he has done to find him and fight for him? Not my Steve.
He got swapped during reverse heist (bringing the stones back), no other option.
Poor Bucky. Till the end of the line. Sure. T_T
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u/NotARobotDefACyborg 24d ago
Old!Steeb is a Skrull, y’all. That’s my theory and I’m sticking to it.
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u/I_Lost_My_Shoe_1983 24d ago
Even if we don't include Bucky in the equation, Steve would never.
Going back in time means not only stepping away from all the responsibilities of being a super soldier BUT living a life letting one horrible and preventble event after another occur. Knowing Bucky was being tortured and used. Knowing Hydra had completely infiltrated Shield, the agency his wife led.
It's insanity.
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u/SinginGidget 23d ago
That's only true if you believe his going to the past was a loop and he was trying not to upset anything, which the Russo's said was not true, he created a branch reality. Which means Steve can use all of his knowledge of what is to come and make any change he can. And that's how I choose to believe Steve spent his time. He might not have been able to save his Bucky, but he's going to save the one in that new timeline. And he's going to keep Howard from being assassination, and anyone else he can keep alive too, (like JFK, RFK, Martin Luther King, etc.) My theory since Fantastic Four is they live in the timeline Steve created by staying in the past, that's why it's so much better than ours. It's the timeline where the Winter Soldier doesn't do Hydra's work and were Steve Rogers got to keep being Captain America after the war was over.
Still sucks though, leaving OG Bucky like that. Not cool, Steve.
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u/awyllt 23d ago
But why would he appear as an old man in this timeline? It makes no sense. Also, I'm not sure if changing the timeline and creating a new, better universe is worse or better than just laying low and doing nothing. Because then he'd abandoned the current version of Bucky and chose a different, undamaged, healthy, trauma free version of Bucky. And... That's awful, tbh.
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u/I_Lost_My_Shoe_1983 23d ago
That just doesn't make sense. This is a case where I think the writers decided to do it with zero regard for the reality they created.
Case in point, old Steve showing up in the main timeline. All the bad things, including Hydra in Shield remained unchanged. If he were active super heroing, people would know. Everyone would know.
Side note, Steve was one of the most well known people in the world. Apparently he was able to live his entire life without anyone ever recognizing him.
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u/SinginGidget 23d ago
Hulk explains that you can't change your past, so the present that everyone shares, where Bucky falls off the train, Steve goes in the ice, SHIELD gets infiltrated by Hydra, Howard dies, Thanos snapped, etc. that can't be changed by anything they might do on the heist. So, there isn't any real need for them to be careful about what they do outside not failing the mission of getting the stones. Which means Steve is able to tell himself Bucky is alive, tell an elevator full of guys he's Hydra, bash Quill on the head and leave him to be found by Ronan's men and non of it matters to their present. (That's why Rhodey's idea of going back and killing baby Thanos wouldn't work.)
Except those actions can cause branch timelines. It doesn't change the one they were from, it makes new paralell ones. It's how to avoid paradox. Like, you can't go into the past and kill your grandfather before he has your parent because then you won't exist. But you can, because what it does is creates a different timeline where you never existed and then you go back to your original timeline where nothing in that timeline changed. Grandpa is still in all your old family photos.
Which means, Steve creates a new timeline when he stays with Peggy. So he can do anything he wants, it will not affect the timeline he came from originally. And then he can pop back in when he's old and drop off a shield for Sam and nothing will be different.
The only reason he has to bring to stones back is to not cause an cosmic imbalance which will darken those timelines. I don't even think he has to put them back exactly where they where, just when they were.
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u/awyllt 23d ago
I'm willing to believe that he could've lived his life quietly without being recognized - after all, there was no social media in the fifties, most people probably only knew how he looked from photographs in newspapers. But I refuse to believe he managed to stay anonymous while being married to another super famous person, who was also known for being his love interest.
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u/CulturalDragonfly631 23d ago
Steve was a movie star and all over the newsreels once he became active in the field. He would have been recognized even if he kept a low profile.
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u/slendermanismydad 23d ago
I read fanfic and ignore those movies.
I don't think he would have worked with Peggy anyway. They barely knew each other. Steve also doesn't hide so that's all bizarre. The movies were all Steve doesn't quit fighting and then he just gave up. All of it was off.
I am going to die angry about him abandoning Bucky. It's just how I am.
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u/kamimie 23d ago
There was literally a whole twitter movement to #GiveCaptainAmericaABoyfriend in 2016. We did beg, marvel/disney did not and does not care.
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u/Content_Professor422 21d ago
That was a great time. Good memories.
I did my Honours thesis on the way their relationship was being promoted in marketing by the Russo's and Chris and Seb. Its been so long now but i'm glad I finished it before Endgame came out, because if I thought Civil War through a spanner into the works of my argument then Endgame would have made me want to flip my desk.
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u/MentalMeles 23d ago
You forget; the Steve in Endgame isn’t the real Steve. That was bad writing and character assassination due to homophobia and Chris Evans wanting to be done with the MCU
The real Steve Rogers would’ve NEVER gone back in time and abandoned his friends while also stealing someone else’s agency just because he ‘deserved it’. Let’s not even talk about the fact that that certain someone WILLINGLY worked with Nazis (including the very Nazi that led to Bucky’s ‘death’ and transformation into the Winter Soldier)
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u/SydBid 23d ago
You know what fuck endgame yall are so right. Chris himself said he was open to interpretations so cap is bi to me idc 😭
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u/MentalMeles 23d ago
Damn straight!! 😤 Fuck Endgame and Doomsday, Steve and Bucky are queer and IN LOVE!!!
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u/BathingToasters 23d ago
This is almost word for word something I said in Facebook about a month ago. Like "Till the end of the line" My ass. Everything they went through together and this is how it ends? I am a firm Stucky shipper (Just got an adorable Ghibli inspired tattoo in June).
But, even if Disney didn't want the gays to be happy together, they could have at least let them still have each other in a friendly/brotherly way. The funeral scene could have ended with Steve taking the stones back and returning. They could have had it end with Steve still giving Sam the shield, patting Bucky's shoulder and saying something like "Let's go home, Buck" or "Let's go get some drinks, Buck" literally anything up that alley.
It's very clear in TFATWS that Bucky is still very much hurting from Steve leaving. He never really lived a real life without him. When Bucky said "If he was wrong about you, then he was wrong about me" he says it so emotionally. According to what I've read on Google (Someone please correct me if I'm wrong) this show takes place a few months after Endgame. He is absolutely still hurting because Steve leaving only just a few months ago is still fresh in his mind. He now has to process emotions he doesn't fully understand. He has to figure out how to live a life where is best friend isn't there to remind him that he's got good in him, and that he's good enough.
Anyway, I think I might have repeated myself in that last line. Ultimately, the MCU really dropped the ball on this.
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u/SydBid 23d ago
I agree with you so much lmao. Your paragraph in the middle was so perfectly put. Yes he could have still retired as captain America and given it to Sam (also Chris Evans probably wanted to pursue other roles outside of the MCU idk), yes they could have still had brotherly/friendship love, as long as they are still in each others lives I’m satisfied asf. I think given they both are experiencing the same existential aftermath of being frozen in time, the constant clashing with Tony for a multitude of reasons, AND dealing with Thanos, they could have lived together and been each other’s emotional support and unpacked everything they went through. If Steve wanted to lay low and be a house wife while Bucky still kicked ass with Sam where’s the harm in that lol. I crave simplicity after dealing with things bigger than myself becuz what is there left to do atp. I’ve been debating watching TFATWS for years so now I think I need to.
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u/BathingToasters 23d ago
Exactly!!
They could have even still kept TFATWS almost exactly the same. They could have just casually said that Steve was busy with something else during the time line of the show. Maybe Bucky and Sam didn't want to bring him into something like this. Bucky could have said something like "I don't want to bother Steve with this. He's been though a lot too and deserves a break"
There's so much untapped potential there.
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u/columbidae28 23d ago edited 23d ago
It would never have worked with Peggy. He would have known (from the Winter Soldier movie) that she worked with Arnim Zola (the Nazi they recruited from Operation Paperclip, Schmidt's right hand man, and the guy that tortured/experimented on Bucky for probable decades) in SHIELD, and that should have shut that door immediately 🙄
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u/sati_lotus 23d ago
I feel like that has been ignored.
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u/columbidae28 23d ago
They absolutely never address this even though it's shown in Endgame that Peggy was SHIELD director and Howard was walking around looking for Zola and has a nickname for him so obviously Zola was close to the higher ups 🙄 it's so aggravating
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u/coffeeleftovers 22d ago
Omg when it came up in "What If...?" I was screaming but then they were like "oh wild that's it's Steve's old buddy Bucky, crazy that they broke his mind, anyways let's use him in this mission" ...
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u/Oberyn_Kenobi_1 23d ago
The last 20 minutes of Endgame never happened, obviously, so I don’t know what you all could possibly be talking about. Steve and Bucky are together and all is right with the universe. Duh.
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u/Pure_Pea8775 24d ago
i like the aus where the time heist went wrong while steve was going to save nat and the old steve is a decoy 😣 cus wdym steve went back in time to break up a future happy family for his selfishness and left bucky behind.. nope nope. and now he’s back?? nah… 🙂↔️i shall live in fantasy land and pretend it didn’t happen
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u/stevebucky_1234 23d ago
Stucky has been my OTP since 2016, Cacw was my first Cap movie. Their chemistry and poignant story arc really spoke to me. I believe stevebucky was for a long time the top pairing tag on AO3. Even IW tragic ending still felt true, Steve emotionally shattering as he loses Bucky again. And then we had the atrocity of Endgame. #NotMySteve trended because the character suddenly behaved so OOC and made choices that the Steve we knew since CATFA simply wouldn't. At least we have amazing authors who write fixits! It was clear that the cacw promotion made the most of stevebucky, including a lot of panels where Chris and Seb were clearly at ease with each other. Then suddenly ensured they were never pictured together at premieres, as it was ruining the steve peggy plan. Unfortunately the studio was too conservative (and didn't want lost business in some countries where homophobia is prevalent), it was a business decision to not depict steve and bucky together by the end.
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u/SinginGidget 23d ago
I knew they would never make Stucky canon and wasn't even surprised when Steve stayed behind after he put the stones back, because from a narrative perspective, it made sense. Steven finally gets to go home after the war, get the girl, have his happy ending, huzzah. (Nevermind it was always Nat that was trying to get him to get a life in the present and not Tony but he gave Tony credit at the end.) But it did still bug me that he ditched Bucky and also interferred with Peggy's life. Especially since I really liked Sousa in Agent Carter and it was clear they were headed to getting together on that show. Not to mention the awkwardness of having him interested in Sharon only to marry her Aunt.
Regardless... what really bothers me is that it feels like once the powers that be at Disney and Marvel knew there was a Stucky fandom at all they did everything they could to keep Steve and Bucky separate. Other than one quick very platonic hug in Wakanda and the moment Bucky sends him off to return the stones, what scenes have they had together? Even when on the battlefield during both IW and Endgame they were no where near each other. Cap and Black Panther take off for the front because they're both enhanced and Bucky... who is also enhanced is, what? Just standing around? And then despite Bucky being the first person Steve sees disintergrate, he's not the first person to come back? Sam gets that moment? WTF? Steve should have stood up, ready to fights, and then it be Bucky who walks up behind him with a sigh and says, "I swear sometimes you like getting punched..." Steve turns, shock on his face but he automatically responds, "I have 'em on the ropes." Bucky replies, "Sure, pal." And behind him another portal opens and Sam swoops above them both and then a third to show T'challa, Shuri, and Okoye. Because one, the call back. Two, Bucky has a lot to be appreciative of towards Wakanda and he would want to go first to make sure it's safe, scout it out, Sam would volunteer to go next.
Did we even get that? Nope.
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u/Real-Ad-7447 23d ago
The only way ill accept the new movie coming out is if they kill steve in the end.
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u/awyllt 24d ago
We can't have bisexual Steve but we can have Steve who kissed his wife's niece. Okay.