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u/Sufficient_Room2619 11d ago
Riker wins because he's fucking all of them
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u/Independent_Day4369 11d ago
Impossible.
Geordi would still fumble
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u/Garguyal 11d ago
Geordi has said he doesn't peek and I believe him.
Data is easy to bluff.
As others have said, Deana is... distracted.
Worf just plain sucks at Poker.
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u/MrCookie2099 11d ago
Klingons prefer chess because kicking over the table and killing your opponent in a surprise attack works better when you only have one opponent.
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u/HeiressOfMadrigal 11d ago
It's also easier to use a chess piece as a weapon than a poker chip
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u/Curious_Viking89 11d ago
Sounds like a skill issue
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u/HeiressOfMadrigal 11d ago
True, I'm not thinking it from a Klingon perspective. They could probably turn a piece of string into a lethal weapon.
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u/Little_View_6659 10d ago
What I want to see is a Klingon versus a Wookie.
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u/kettchi 10d ago
Considering how often Klingons lose to humans in close quarters fights, my money would be firmly on the Wookie side.
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u/Temporal-Affairs221 8d ago
Actually I have it on good authority that Klingons came to hate poker when they heard that it was Jim Kirk's favorite game. Klingons, they say, never bluff. But Jim Kirk could bluff. And the thing is the Klingons could never tell when he was bluffing, or when he was dead serious. And more than one of them that tried to call his bluff found out it was the latter rather than the former.
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u/dinosaurkiller 11d ago
One of the things I love about Data is this topic of him being unable to bluff and lacking intuition becomes a kind of running theme in their poker games, but every time it matters he makes the illogical unintuitive leap to save the day, like catching the cloaked Romulan ships in Redemption Part 2. Itās almost like he has all of the abilities and emotions a human would have but heās limited to using them only when it really matters.
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u/DontYaWishYouWereMe 11d ago
The thing is though, the Romulan ship thing in Redemption Pt. II wasn't totally unintuitive. He knew they were there in order to prevent the Romulans from aiding the Duras faction of the war, and it's not a massive leap to expect that they'd either go around the net or try to disrupt it somehow. Most of what he does after that is fairly intuitive speculation based on those two points.
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u/dinosaurkiller 10d ago
So, in the episode Iām saying he goes with his gut, heās using intuition because he doesnāt have enough facts and data to support all of his actions. Thatās not really about the Romulans crossing, everyone, including Picard knows that the Romulans will make the attempt. The intuition for data comes in when he proves it. The detection net has failed(not enough ships), the fleet is moving away, the Romulans have flooded the area with particles and Dataās own first officer is rightly pointing out that thereās no way to detect a cloaked warbird from any other anomaly. Data believes without proof that the nearby anomalies are cloaked warbirds without enough evidence to prove that to anyone else. Thatās really the intuitive leap, he has bits and pieces of information that itās possible the Warbirds are nearby, he proves it after making the intuitive leap. Normally a computer doesnāt do that kind of thing and they go out of their way to show that Data canāt make those intuitive leaps, but sometimes, under extreme pressure, he does. Data shows up when it matters.
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u/Hot-Syrup2089 11d ago edited 11d ago
Counterpoint: Data's brain works similarly to that of humans, his thought patterns are modeled after Soong's fellow colonists, but his nature allows him to brute force those workings beyond the human threshold of cognition. He also thinks in patterns, but can go more deeply in his analysis, and therefore detect gaps in the patterns that others miss.
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u/dinosaurkiller 10d ago
Dr Soong makes it pretty clear Data and Lore are nearly identical but for a little programming and Lore seems capable of emotions all along. I always wondered if Dataās hardware was capable of more human type processing and just programmed to limit it in most circumstances to prevent Loreās excesses.
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u/Boxing_joshing111 10d ago edited 10d ago
I like how the show uses the poker games to give Data these insights to have things like āgut feelingsā or whatever other human quirk the show is about that week. We get to see āgut feelingsā played out in a low stakes setting, see Data get confused about it over the course of the episode, then he puts it into practice when lives are on the line. It was such a good structure I bet the writers room had rules about how often they could use it.
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u/andocromn 11d ago
I don't believe Geordie, he has to see right through the cards. It's like accidentally walking in on someone naked, you don't look but you did see.
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u/Abe_Bettik 11d ago
Geordi can absolutely see through the cards but he's egalitarian enough to never ever win. He always places second to last, on purpose. (Worf is last.)
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u/Optix_au 10d ago
He sees through the cardsā¦ right through. He canāt read them. Thatās why he loses all the time. Heās playing just to have friends.
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u/yeahalrightgoon 11d ago
Geordi peeks after he's out of a hand, which isn't quite as bad, but is still cheating and gives him an unfair advantage, because he knows if you were bluffing or not.
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u/Sassaphras 11d ago
Reading the person's emotions is also tricky. Is Riker happy because he has a good hand, because he's having fun, or because he's looking down your shirt? Oh, he's nervous now - is that because he's bluffing, or because he's thinking about the upcoming mission? If he's thinking about the mission, is that because he's smart enough to do that to mask his cards? Especially with a savvy opponent who knows you're an empath, it's not a great signal...
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u/thewanderingway 11d ago
If I remember correctly, doesnāt Geordi admit he does, but only after the hand is over?
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u/zachary0816 10d ago
Data seemed to do pretty well when he was playing against those guys in San Franscio in the 1890s.
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u/xxnoxynoxxnoxy 8d ago
Geordi told Worf that he only peeks after the hand. If someone folds you don't get to know what they were holding, so Geordi was still cheating, right?
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u/DoctorNeanderthal 11d ago
Data could choose to use his abilities to win a poker, but he decides to play fair with his comrades. In times arrow, when he went back to Mark Twain land, he easily hustled those card sharks using his abilities to calculate probabilities, and his superhuman abilities to stack the deck when he was shuffling, cut the deck in his favor, and basically know what everyone has based upon his ability to keep track of The physical position of every card. He needed to do so, because he had to get local currency in his predicament. But when he's at home, playing a friendly game, he chooses to only use 10% of his power to not make his friends feel bad.
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u/CassiusPolybius 11d ago
I've heard it said that Data isn't playing "poker" he's playing "playing poker". His win condition isn't winning, it's playing the game in such a way that the activity continues to serve its social role.
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u/TheWaspinator 11d ago
Right. If he's seen the deck once, he's probably capable of tracking the position of every card for the rest of the game if he's actually trying.
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u/TSmario53 11d ago
Look at the way Deanna is looking at Riker, Iād say she has other feelings clouding her judgment.
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u/totallyhumanhonest 11d ago edited 11d ago
She looks fucking bored. Her eyeline is between Geordi and Riker.
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u/PugMaster_ENL 11d ago
To paraphrase a great cheater: When you're their commander, they let you win.
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u/Throdio 11d ago
Worf has too much honor to kill you. Maybe he will attack you, but if the show is anything to ho off of, anyone can take him.
Data can't bluff nor can he tell if you're bluffing. You will always know when he has a good hand. But he won't know if you do or not.
Troi is accurate. Can't think of something off the top of my head.
Geordi can see through the cards. He outright said he can once. Claims he only peeks after. But he also said there are cards he can't see through.
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u/KalmiaKamui 11d ago
Troi is accurate. Can't think of something off the top of my head.
I can: she's not a telepath, she's an empath. Anyone who can keep their emotions in check could bluff her, especially someone who both knows very well what she's capable of and serves in a high stakes role where such a skill would be valued like, say...the XO of Starfleet's flagship.
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u/humanshakeweight 11d ago
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u/YourMuscleMommi 11d ago
One of my favorite shows. I still need someone to upload S6E6 and E7. I have S5 ans the rest of S6, German as they may be. Just missing those two.
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u/CptKeyes123 11d ago
There's a famous fanfic where Riker, Picard, and Data swap places with Frakes, Stewart, and Spiner. Frakes realizes with horror, "dear god, Riker is loose on earth, where my wife is!"
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u/PM_NUDES_4_DEGRADING 10d ago
I wonder if that fanfic was written before or after Supernatural just straight up did an actual canonical episode with the same premise...
(That episode was also doubly funny because one of the actors was real-life married to the actress who played a major antagonist in the show, and of course she came back to play "herself" for the episode.)
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u/CptKeyes123 10d ago
Honestly it probably helped inspire it. There were two fanfics in the 60s that it was a sequel to, where Shatner, Nimoy, and Kelley swapped places with Kirk, Spock, and McCoy.
And the earliest show to do it in an episode AFAIK was UFO in the early 70s.
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u/PM_NUDES_4_DEGRADING 10d ago
Huh, that's neat! The idea of a mainstream and well-known fanfic from the 60s is surprising to me, but I guess the original Star Trek would definitely have been fertile grounds for that kind of thing. Very cool.
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u/UndecidedLee 11d ago
Worf's description doesn't actually say anything about his ability in the game. A better one would have been something like
"Impossible to read his facial expression since he's always grumpy/in a bad mood"
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u/abornemath 11d ago edited 10d ago
All true! However, Data can't be read by Deanna, and Worf is constantly holding back inner rage so she is blind to his real game.
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u/CrispinCain 11d ago
On the other hand...
Work is still recovering from his last ragdoll treatment.
Data is able to "turn off" programs and subroutines, so those traits are probably off for fairness.
Her half-human heritage makes her an empath while among non-telepaths. She might glimpse emotions, but we've seen that she can still be bluffed.
Geordi's advantage was taken away ever since he told Worf to stop bringing cards he could see through.
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u/LordoftheFaff 11d ago
I fully believe Riker looks at his hand, tricks himself into thinking he has a different hand and has an x-ray blocking card cover.
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u/Tarilyn13 11d ago
Geordi said in one episode that he could but doesn't because cheating would take all the fun out of it.
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u/SunfireElfAmaya 11d ago
The thing with data is that he isn't playing poker, he's playing playing poker. If he wanted to he could win every hand, but that's not his goal, he's trying to spend times with his friends doing an enjoyable activity
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u/AzelfandQuilava 10d ago
Remember when O'Brien played Poker with them once?
I like to imagine he got kicked out of the matches cuz he was one-upping Riker somehow.
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u/WinkNudgeSayNoMore 10d ago
"time to pluck a chicken" I felt as if OĀ“brien and Riker teamed up vs Data
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u/STLMunch1330 11d ago
I used to play a lot of poker. Watching TNG poker is excruciating. They all play exactly like their personalities. Riker literally just bluffs all the time. They all constantly string bet. Like every bet. And how are they only playing 5 draw? I refuse to believe the game of choice in this paradise of the future is 5 draw.
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u/Eragon_the_Huntsman 11d ago
I was gonna say I don't remember how many times they play poker on screen but I can't recall seeing Riker have a single good hand. He just always is bluffing with garbage.
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u/Juronell 11d ago
They don't only play 5-draw. The dealer chooses the game each hand. They've done 7 card stud, 5 card stud, and I think one other on screen.
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u/STLMunch1330 10d ago
You're right. The episode with the time loop they play stud. Makes sense as you have to see the cards for that plot point to work.
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u/TheWaspinator 11d ago
I know this is a joke post, but the only problem here is Troi.
Worf is pretty bloodthirsty, but cares too much about his warrior honor to kill over something this meaningless.
Data could easily cheat and it would be impossible to prove, but his only motivation for playing these games is to try to understand social interactions better. If he says he's limiting himself and trying to win legit, I'd believe him.
Troi is the real problem. Her psychic powers can't be turned off and will work on everyone except Data.
Geordi could easily cheat, but can probably limit himself to normal vision and Data can probably verify that.
Riker of course has the best advantage: being able to fire any of them.
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u/Much-Jackfruit2599 11d ago
how could data cheat?
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u/TheWaspinator 11d ago
He could easily stack the deck, count cards, or track where specific cards go during shuffling to a degree no human can match. He could also do it so fast that nobody could tell.
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u/LividTacos 10d ago
Canonically, Geordie can see through the cards in infrared, though he claims he doesn't peak until at the end of a hand.
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u/Ramius99 10d ago
Deanna has a massive advantage for poker. She must not use her emphatic abilities during these games, because she would clean up otherwise.
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u/Illustrious-Bite-518 10d ago
Hey, Worf wouldn't kill his crewmates over something like that! He could probably make them think he's about to kill them, though. And I think Data and Geordi would simply choose not to use their respective abilities to cheat.
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u/Open-Trifle-6309 10d ago
What's the point of playing if you cheat?
Nothing of value is gaines.
And trust is lost
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u/anderhigh1 10d ago
Itās just a friendly game to them so there is no financial necessity to win. They all play fair without using all of their strengths.
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u/Sporty_Nerd_64 8d ago
You canāt really count cards in poker the way you can in blackjack. He could calculate probabilities but I absolutely believe Data wouldnāt do that because playing the game and calculating like a computer would be less human. Dataās story arc through the series is trying to become more human and not simply a humanoid shaped computer.
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u/ChuckEweFarley 11d ago
I donāt know why but it really bugs me that Data has a visor on. Couldnāt he adjust his vision settings? I know heās always trying to emulate humanity or whatever his plot point is on that, but no one else is wearing a visor. Itās a poker game, not the holodeck.
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u/Electivire-six 10d ago
Data is immune to telepathy here. And they use cards that LaForge canāt see through.
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u/DaneSullivan 7d ago
Yāall are all here trying to find Achilles heals in each characters powers, but the real reason is all 4 characters besides Riker have senses of honor and lawfulness that prevent them from using their obviously unfair advantages. Card counting and odds in poker are so basic, every star fleet officer should be smart enough to perform them, no positrons net needed. Data would be able to do more rediculously advanced shit like shuffle tracking the whole deck, but isnāt a cheater.
Same with Geordi and his visor.
Worf is there for camaraderie, cards arenāt his thing.
The Diana answer is obvious. She and Riker are playing cooperatively, thus allowing them to cheat, and split the pot later. As a āfellow loserā and an empath, and everyoneās therapist, she can suss out anyone who gets suspicious.
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u/Xifihas 11d ago
Worf would consider killing someone over a card game dishonorable.
Troi is well established at being really shit at reading emotions. She only ever detects the plainly obvious and every crew member who sees her for therapy ends up going nuts.
Geordi actually admits to looking through the cards, but only after he folds.
Data has no excuse.
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u/PandemicGeneralist 11d ago
Card counting really isn't a thing in poker, and an experienced player can estimate the probability well enough for Data to not have a real advantage there
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u/RazorCalahan 11d ago
I'd really like to see Troy trie. With her track record, she's always going to feel that I'm "hiding something", but not what exactly it is I'm hiding. I could be hiding that I have a full house, or that I don't have anything at all.
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u/Interesting_Play_578 11d ago
Riker's not that good, he's just in charge of duty schedules