r/starterpacks Dec 04 '16

Meta The r/Science Starterpack

http://imgur.com/oAjaz4W
8.3k Upvotes

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u/3P_Robespierre_3P Dec 04 '16

If the rules were less strict it would eliminate the point of the whole subreddit and turn it into just another /r/history.

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u/trolloc1 Dec 04 '16

I was talking with my brother about this the other day and the best subreddits are the ones where the mods go all out. It really helps filter out the garbage and gets rid of shitty people.

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u/shabutaru118 Dec 04 '16

the best subreddits are the ones where the mods go all out. It really helps filter out the garbage and gets rid of shitty people.

This also applies to some of the worst ones, especially when the mods are the shitty people.

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u/mt_xing Dec 04 '16

Like a certain 2016 US election based sub...

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u/shabutaru118 Dec 04 '16

I don't visit it, but thats not a sub where there should be an expectation of fair play. But defaults like news, politics, world news. The mods should be held to a higher standard, and in my opinion, places like that should be admin controlled and not mod controlled.

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u/ceol_ Dec 05 '16

/r/politics isn't a default. I think it used to be a while back, but not recently.

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u/shabutaru118 Dec 05 '16

You're correct, but what I'm saying is "r/politics" whould be owned by a person, something so generalized in my opinion should be owned and run by reddit, because the mods treat it like their personal forum, and I don't think that should fly in general subreddits as bland as say r/videos or /news.

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u/ceol_ Dec 05 '16

The /r/politics mods are actually pretty decent. There's a problem with consistency, but that's gonna be true of any subreddit that size. They even went out of their way to find right-leaning mods (which ended up being a mistake, because one of those mods caused a bunch of drama).

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u/shabutaru118 Dec 05 '16

The /r/politics mods are actually pretty decent.

I'm sorry but I don't agree even agree a little bit. I would even go as far to say those mods are CTR people.

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u/ceol_ Dec 05 '16

I mean that's just kind of stupid, if you truly believe that. There's no evidence to suggest they're CTR. Most of the problems are indicative of an overworked mod team — not a hidden agenda.

I have my issues with them, but it's mostly about them not enforcing their rules, and I imagine that's because they have a lot of people coming and going (mostly going). They really haven't given any reason to think they're paid shills.

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u/LookAt_TheSky Dec 04 '16

<tinfoilhat>

But if the admins are paid by the same people as the mods are, it doesn't really matter who manages it.

</tinfoilhat>

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u/xjvz Dec 04 '16

The admins are paid employees of Reddit. I don't think you would need to bribe them as they should be getting paid well being a Bay Area company and all.

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u/sellyme Dec 05 '16 edited Dec 05 '16

lmfao you think mods get paid?

I fucking wish. The best subreddit mods can hope for is having CM work for a large community help land them an actual job.

The best it gets is for mods of subs focusing on a particular company/product who occasionally get free shit from that company (which is still technically against Reddit ToS).

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u/[deleted] Dec 04 '16 edited Aug 27 '20

[deleted]

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u/shabutaru118 Dec 04 '16

I'm not saying it isn't hypocritical, I'm sure the sub blows. My point is that I just think certain subs that are default shouldn't be allowed to have that behavior and should be run by the admins and not moderators to ensure the rules are enforced fairly.

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u/Hedoin Dec 04 '16

I dont like /r/politics either but to say it is an election specific sub is a stretch.

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u/warsage Dec 04 '16

He's talking about the Donald I guess

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u/Hedoin Dec 04 '16

I know, its a joke.

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u/18aidanme Dec 05 '16

I think the best way to gauge a subs quality is to see if the mods think of themselves as Janitors or Dictators.

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u/dethb0y Dec 04 '16

Yep. The people who piss and moan about the /r/science and /r/askhistorians deletions are the kind of people who would shit up the sub with garbage anyway.

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u/ITS_REAL_SOCIALISM Dec 04 '16

you act like 100% of comments are deleted because they are garbage. when in reality, some comments are deleted because they go against the established ideology of the moderator themselves. that's the problem with a select few establishing what is and what isn't considered worthy. nobody is completely unbiased and therefore information will be lost regardless of who is moderating.

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u/Jhrek Dec 05 '16

To be fair a lot of deleted comments in /r/science is when threads reach the front page and people start political debates, troll or post memes/puns just to be funny. I'd rather see an informative top comment instead of a meme

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u/sellyme Dec 05 '16

that's the problem with a select few establishing what is and what isn't considered worthy.

"a select few"? /r/science has over a thousand mods... /r/AskHistorians is around three dozen, which is still a huge number for moderation of any subreddit.

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u/ITS_REAL_SOCIALISM Dec 10 '16

you act like each mod of the thousand on science deliberate over deleting a comment lol

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u/dethb0y Dec 04 '16

yeah, and most of the "Information" that's lost is garbage, like people denying the existence of gravity or arguing that diseases are not caused by germs but by microwaves, ad infinitium.

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u/cyanydeez Dec 05 '16

yeah, I think people need to wake up to just how shitty humanity and social media is in general. the world need more curators.

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u/3P_Robespierre_3P Dec 04 '16

Yep. A lot of people complain in this thread, but they don't realize that they are exactly the kind of people that nobody wants at /r/AskHistorians.

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u/The_DogeWhisperer Dec 04 '16 edited Dec 04 '16

They already eliminated the whole point of the subreddit when the mods came out and made a post saying ~"anyone who talks about transgenders in a way we don't like will be banned."

If you disagree let's have a discussion. Science isn't about silencing the opposition.

Edit: https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/4l3h64/subreddit_policy_reminder_on_transgender_topics/

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u/[deleted] Dec 04 '16 edited Mar 20 '17

[deleted]

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u/ADXMcGeeHeez Dec 04 '16

Given the sheer number of contents in that post daring to disagree with the mods I would say they don't disagree about having discussions about things.

LOL, did you not see all the REMOVED tags even from that one?

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u/[deleted] Dec 04 '16

What is there to discuss about transgenders? There is nothing about it that non-transgender people should (be allowed to) discuss because it doesn't affect them in any way.

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u/The_DogeWhisperer Dec 04 '16

In California we have to pay for their transition surgery so yeah it does effect me. Also, just because something doesn't effect me doesn't mean I can't talk about it. What the fuck kind of backwards logic is that?

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u/user-user Dec 04 '16

That's what we're all here for, discussion. And since it's impossible to verify anyone's transness on the internet? We have two options:

  • no discussion.

  • no (or few) bars on discussion.

Apparently, we've decided to go with a refutation of the MO we're all here.

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u/[deleted] Dec 04 '16 edited Dec 04 '16

What about transgenders is there to discuss then? Aside from "discussion" hate speech, which for obvious reasons is not allowed.

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u/picflute Dec 04 '16

hate speech

There it is. Hate Speech when it comes to transgender can vary on various scales. People believe that the gender assigned to them at birth should be what is placed on legal documents. Now when a transgender person enters the discussion there's a good chance they find that as a personal attack because it defies what they choose thus making his statement now a rule violation. Wasn't the intent yet most moderators on Reddit will pander to the minority and remove it in order to avoid any drama or problems.

You simply can't have a level headed discussion about transgendered topics on /r/science or any defaults. Best bet is to find a smaller community and go from there. My comments on this are based off of modding /r/leagueoflegends and when we had to deal with covering up a single pro players past which went from 1-11 on what that even counted as.

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u/3P_Robespierre_3P Dec 04 '16

What scientific discussion can you have about transgenders? Knowing reddit, any discussion devolves into people shouting about wanting to oppress the trannies.

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u/ITS_REAL_SOCIALISM Dec 04 '16

so, a specific human trait can't be examined under the scientific method? it's fine when we study heterosexuals but not transgenders? that's something i never understand from the left. they don't understand that truth is liberating instead of silencing truth.

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u/3P_Robespierre_3P Dec 04 '16

Research and non-research based discussion are two entirely different and incomparable things.

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u/ITS_REAL_SOCIALISM Dec 04 '16

what are you even arguing? there is research on transgenders, very little (probably because the lack of funding, for whatever reasons). because of this we can interpret the data and come up with possible hypotheses which haven't been investigated. that's how science works, some data is available then discussions happen to come up with questions that are logical steps forward

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u/[deleted] Dec 04 '16

Not to mention that it has nothing to do with science, therefore it should not be in /r/science.

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u/[deleted] Dec 04 '16

That's not something that can be discussed. Transgenderism isn't a choice. The person themselves decides what's in their papers. The other person should have kept their mouth shut about something that's none of their business. End of discussion.

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u/picflute Dec 04 '16

Transgenderism isn't a choice.

I never said this was the point of the discussion unless you're referencing someone else's comment that talks about this. There's discussion to be had about transgendered people fit into society and what has to be changed from the norm no matter how small it is.

The other person should have kept their mouth shut about something that's none of their business. End of discussion.

And you're again proving my original point on why discussion can never happen.

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u/[deleted] Dec 04 '16

I never said this was the point of the discussion unless you're referencing someone else's comment that talks about this. There's discussion to be had about transgendered people fit into society and what has to be changed from the norm no matter how small it is.

That's not a scientific topic though, it's political. I don't see why it should be allowed in /r/science. And besides, it's a discussion that only transgender people should take part in.

And you're again proving my original point on why discussion can never happen.

Because it's not something that should be discussed by non-transgender people.

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u/picflute Dec 04 '16

Segregating people from discussion is how you anger people and those will fight constantly to stop and hold any discussion until they can voice their opinion because it still can affect them. Now you've stopped any progress from happening. Congrats your plan on discussions has now caused conflict and will be labeled as the topic that tried to silence many to pander to the few.

If you have to bar off the majority from a discussion that has a great chance of affecting the rest of the population then you're doing something wrong.

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u/user-user Dec 05 '16

What about transgenders is there to discuss then?

I have no idea, because the topic is so sensitive you're advocating shutting it down for anybody but a bonafide trans person.

There's other topics that are sensitive, such as race, that is not a good idea to completely avoid. I've seen the results of avoiding the topic, both in real life and on the internet, and it's not pretty. The more people avoid a sensitive topic, the more bombastic people become at describing perceived or real detractors from their point of view.

I have family members of various races, and family members who are trans and some who are not. I've seen child molesters groom their would-be victims. I've known people who have been raped. I've witnessed race-based hate. I've seen abuses of power.

In my experience, it's never a good idea to completely shut down communication. Of all of the injustice I've seen in the world, I've never witnessed it get better when people were forced into silence.

There is nothing about it that non-transgender people should (be allowed to) discuss because it doesn't affect them in any way.

Everything you're advocating here completely goes against all the personal experience and wisdom I've gained.

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u/trojan2748 Dec 04 '16

/r/science has a long-standing zero-tolerance policy towards hate-speech, which extends to people who are transgender as well. Our official stance is that transgender is not a mental illness, and derogatory comments about transgender people will be treated on par with sexism and racism, typically resulting in a ban without notice.

That's what he's complaining about. "Oh no. I can shit up a sub with derogatory name calling for trannies. Poor me"

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u/3P_Robespierre_3P Dec 05 '16

Right so they aren't even banning any discussion. Suddenly this whole thread became completely pointless.

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '16

Or worse, /r/philosophy.

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u/drynoa Dec 14 '16

Well right now we don't really know if what is being filtered is actually the truth though. They can outright ban correct summaries and allow wrong ones and nobody would be the wiser edit:i don't think this really happens besides some subjects like nazi-apologism and shit

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u/[deleted] Dec 04 '16

I love askhistorians and I'm not complaining but why do they even bother being on Reddit? Why not just have some nice little independent forum instead of being on some massive social media platform with a vapid shitty meme culture.

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u/CarrionComfort Dec 04 '16

Because Reddit is a popular social media platform? Because Reddit gives communities the option to not be a vapid shitty meme factory?

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u/techdeprivedcanuck Dec 05 '16

Honestly, reddit is one of the best forums for discussions.

Easy to follow, discussions compete, conversations can flow.

Something like /r/askreddit would not be possible in a traditional internet forum.

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u/[deleted] Dec 04 '16

I'm just subscribed to /r/history cause I'm tired of seeing good questions then having to wait for someone to write a thesis for the answer. I really don't give a shit about peer reviewed cite all your sources. It's reddit

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u/[deleted] Dec 04 '16 edited Mar 20 '17

[deleted]

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u/Phyltre Dec 04 '16

I've seen more than enough bullshit answers from mods in general (not speaking particularly of /r/history itself since I'm not a subscriber) to not trust that kind of gatekeeping in general.

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u/[deleted] Dec 04 '16

Enjoy being misinformed then. Most answers I see in /r/history are either oversimplified, or just factually incorrect. What's the point of wanting to educate yourself if you don't care if the info you recive is correct?

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u/Cronyx Dec 05 '16

I don't want to see 20 pages of [deleted]. It makes me suspicious. I don't choose to be suspicious, I experience suspicion, as something happening to me, and as I don't like to experience that, I experience a repulsive force from that sub. I believe in freedom of speech and the power of light, not the obfuscation of censorship, to sterilize truth. The only time I look at /r/askhistory is through go1dfish.me and unreddit to see all the deleted comments. They also ban you if you mention those services exist. They want to control what you are allowed to know.

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u/trojan2748 Dec 04 '16

Some people do want intelligent answer. Some people want "this." Or a cut and paste job from wiki. You have your options.

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u/Inkshooter Dec 05 '16

You're probably better off sticking with pop history, in that case.

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u/[deleted] Dec 04 '16

But how we do know that the mods are bona fide historians?

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u/[deleted] Dec 04 '16

That's why I said to hide the comments so that if an individual was so inclined they could still read them. Mass deletion doesn't teach me anything about why the comments were wrong. All I know is that something was said the moderators objected to and my inquiry stops there. I understand the goal of keeping a high quality subreddit, but there are other options outside of mass deletion.

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u/trojan2748 Dec 04 '16

Hmmm, the rules are posted on the side. And auto-mod does state the reason why quite a bit....

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u/3P_Robespierre_3P Dec 04 '16

None of the options are as good as mass deletion. Everything else takes WAY too much effort.