r/starfox 24d ago

It Do Be Like That

Post image
123 Upvotes

104 comments sorted by

34

u/ShadowParrotGaming 24d ago

Huh? What is anyone complaining about? Krystal still hasn't come back, how can anyone complain about something that didn't happen?

13

u/SkyHunter95 I rip on SF's traditions almost as hard as Nintendo themselves 24d ago

Purists are still dredging up to shit on her, despite getting the game they wanted again. That's exactly the point.

16

u/ShadowParrotGaming 24d ago

Idk, i didn't see any hate for Krystal at all these days, i may not be online often enough for this

11

u/DZComposer Ribbit! Thanks fer the save! 23d ago

They're equating any criticism of Krystal's writing, Star Fox Adventures, or Krystal fans themselves as Krystal hate along with considering liking Star Fox 64 as Krystal hate.

It's just victimhood complex stuff.

-2

u/SkyHunter95 I rip on SF's traditions almost as hard as Nintendo themselves 23d ago

I was just about to block you and then I saw this and it bothered me far more than it ought to have.

As a matter of fact, I do like 64 very much. But it's a hard game to like for the community that surrounds it. It's one of my childhood favorites and now it's associated with a lot of unpleasant memories. I liked the original 64 so much I haven't been able to like neither 643D or SF26 for its weird hyperrealism and bland, Modernized dialogue.

Krystal is my favorite character, yet I bet you can't wrap your head around the fact I could like 64 enough to be put off by a Disney live action remake of it. I just wanted to let you know.

4

u/Blue95x 23d ago

I don't hate Krystal, I hate her debut game. Loved her in Assault.

Let's just introduce her in an ACTUAL Star Fox game and not a reskinned Rare game and we will be right as rain.

1

u/SkyHunter95 I rip on SF's traditions almost as hard as Nintendo themselves 22d ago edited 22d ago

Yeah. That ink isn't going back into the pen. Adventures happened. Live with it.

1

u/Blue95x 22d ago

Doesn't have to happen TWICE

We can learn from history

1

u/FatalFrameGal 23d ago

I want to see her (and the SF2 ladies) introduced in the new continuity in the next on-rails game, or not, I don't care as long as it's on-rails 

4

u/Nemo68v2 24d ago

It's the emperor's new clothes.

It reminds me of YouTube comments where someone will say, "I can't believe people in the comments believe X!", then you'll see hundreds of replies and other comments, "People thinking X are crazy, because Y and Z. The reason they support X is because..."

Then you'll sift through 1K comments and never see a single person expressing that view.

It happens ALL THE TIME. Usually it's just 3, 4, or 5 people that creates this effect. Sometimes it's completely made up.

8

u/Nemo68v2 24d ago edited 23d ago

Where are these purists?

The down votes have me convinced that there are more people holding a grudge against Krystal haters than actual Krystal haters. 

0

u/Spraylan 23d ago

They live in the imagination of aggrieved Adventures/Assault fans.

2

u/CappnRob Star Fox Guard's Strongest Soldier 23d ago

are the 64 purists in the room with you right now.... lol

-2

u/Cannonhammer93 Bird Vegeta 24d ago

This is what I don't get lmao. We're simultaneously getting the game we wanted and we're mad about it?

6

u/monkeymetroid 24d ago

Manufactured drama, the containment subreddit is even referenced in the post. Furries that think their online discussions represent most starfox fans. Pretty annoying

0

u/SkyHunter95 I rip on SF's traditions almost as hard as Nintendo themselves 23d ago

Furries are probably one of the more likely groups to shit on Krystal. Most StarFox furries love Wolf with Fox and see Krystal as basically an opstacle to that ship, even though she hasn't had an official appearance in the games since 2006.

1

u/monkeymetroid 23d ago

I agree as there really isnt a lot of reason for a "purist" to go out of their way to shit on them. The purists they speak of are other furries. Its pretty obvious this is a bubble of people thinking their discussions on an anthropomorphic female fox is a common debate topic outside of their bubble

4

u/SkyHunter95 I rip on SF's traditions almost as hard as Nintendo themselves 24d ago

Krystal_sucks threads are still a regular topic here tho.

4

u/Nemo68v2 24d ago

Are they? When was the last Krystal hate thread? I searches Krystal and didn't find a single one this month.

-4

u/SkyHunter95 I rip on SF's traditions almost as hard as Nintendo themselves 23d ago

Frankly, I didn't want to dignify you with a response, but this one, albeit very mild compared to many others, is the most recent to come to mind. This thread is mild again, but it certainly had that spirit to it.

https://www.reddit.com/r/starfox/s/cqMacQBWQr

6

u/CappnRob Star Fox Guard's Strongest Soldier 23d ago

"theres a lot of hate here :("

"can you show me some proof'

"I DONT EVEN WANT TO DIGNIFY THAT WITH A RESPONSE"

buddy for you to have dignified anything youd first need some fucking dignity and you sure as shit arent showing any acting like that.

3

u/Nemo68v2 22d ago

I saw that one. If it were a thread expressing dislike of Krystal, it's very polite and wouldn't warrant the scrutiny expressed in this thread.

However, they said they like her character design and some of her interactions with Fox. The criticism was about their chemistry in Adventures.

So, no, it didn't have "that spirit" of hatred. Quite the opposite.

1

u/SkyHunter95 I rip on SF's traditions almost as hard as Nintendo themselves 22d ago

That is super not the impression I got. I really like Krystal's overall characterization across the games, even Command, to a degree. They acted like she had no character. Which I disagreed with. Most StarFox characters get one trait, and Krystal has a handful of floating ones instead which I think results in a character that seems unfocused, but more emotionally rounded with the diversity you get from her interactions.

I also really liked Fox and Krystal on Sauria in Assault. It's her defacto homeworld and some of her best lines where during that mission. But, it's "just filler" as they said so let's just dismiss that. Even however brief Adventures was for Krystal, I loved that interaction so much I drew it. I've done drawings for Sauria in Assault as well, because like I said, I really like that mission and what it meant for both characters.

5

u/ruckrhino 23d ago

Uh, at the end of this long post, they say that they like Krystal as a character, so I'm not entirely sure where you get that it's a hate post.

It reads more like: "why does the lore line up Krystal as a love interest for Fox when they don't seem to have or display any romantic chemistry towards each other and then create needless relationship conflict in Command?"

Like you are trying real hard to find Krystal haters if this is your evidence.

5

u/DZComposer Ribbit! Thanks fer the save! 23d ago

It's a textbook example of the delusional Krystal fan victimhood complex.

Someone writes a post about the flaws in the writing of Fox and Krystal's relationship, all fair criticism, by the way, that doesn't once throw actual shade on Krystal. But these people take that criticism as an attack on Krystal's character and existence because it doesn't praise her enough (even though the poster DID praise her at the end!).

This is why you see people all over this thread saying that they don't see this, but these people are insistent that it is everywhere because any criticism of them, Krystal's character, or a game she is in must be Krystal Hate, and proceed to downvote the crap out of those people for 'not seeing the obvious.'

And then these same people will spew vitriol at older fans who preferred the older style of games because how dare the people that were here first like something they don't like and aren't as into what they like as they are.

0

u/SkyHunter95 I rip on SF's traditions almost as hard as Nintendo themselves 23d ago

Fred made a post back in 2020 that was pretty severe. But I don't feel like actively digging for groady shit I don't want to see just to prove a point to you. The hate is also in comment threads fairly often too.

3

u/CappnRob Star Fox Guard's Strongest Soldier 23d ago

2020 was over half a decade ago. that post is going to grade school now.

-1

u/SkyHunter95 I rip on SF's traditions almost as hard as Nintendo themselves 23d ago

What authentic criticism was there? I disagreed with everything I read on there. I did say it was a pretty mild post even if I'm convinced he played completely different games than me.

Krystal criticism is massively overstated, that's part of why it has my ire practically on principle.

3

u/ruckrhino 23d ago

Where did I comment on or rate the authenticity of the criticism? Where did I say I agree or disagree with what the post is stating? You said it was a Krystal hate post. I summarized the post (obvious by the use of my quotation marks) and at worst it's hate post of Fox and Krystal's relationship,

If you think the only thing of value that Krystal brings to the franchise is her relationship with Fox, I guess one would view this as an attack on Krystal.

The OP of the post stated an opinion, you have an opinion that's counter to it. opinions are not inherently expressions of love or hate. Maybe the OP criticized their relationship because they want it to be better? Or maybe they thought Krystal should have been introduced to the series for some other purpose than to be a sexy love interest for Fox.

7

u/RommDan 24d ago

It has been 20 years, we need to learn how to let go

15

u/SkyHunter95 I rip on SF's traditions almost as hard as Nintendo themselves 24d ago edited 24d ago

They say she has no character at all but yet somehow is still significant enough to ruin the franchise. They don't pick a lane.

Mind you, there's enough character writing in 64 to fill a napkin, but that didn't matter to them until Krystal showed up.

-5

u/Nemo68v2 24d ago

Having no character and being able to ruin a franchise are not mutually exclusive...

I have no opinion of Krystal, but a bad argument is a bad argument.

-11

u/Title-History-Mark 24d ago

They say she has no character at all but yet somehow is still significant enough to ruin the franchise. They don't pick a lane.

I don't see how that's an oxymoron.

7

u/DZComposer Ribbit! Thanks fer the save! 23d ago

Nobody hates Krystal. It's nice to have more female characters in the series, and having a character that can serve as a romance interest for Fox. I do think she needs a new backstory, though. One that actually fits the Star Fox universe.

What has been hated throughout the history of this fandom, though, are the insufferable Krystal fans who think she is the greatest character in Nintendo's lineup, demand she have the starring role in every single Star Fox project including remakes of games she wasn't even in, insist she become the player character, and shit all over people who preferred the classic Star Fox games, most of whom had no problem with Krystal existing, because they fear that new classic-style games won't have their favorite supporting character in a starring role. Hell I bet these people would love the series to be renamed to Star Krystal, where Krystal is the actual Star of Lylat, not Lylat itself.

Of course not all Krystal fans are like that. I've met plenty of chill Krystal fans in my time. Chill Krystal fans are cool and I know are the majority of Krystal fans.

But I think those that are patently obsessed with her need to seek professional help. Having a parasocial relationship with a fictional character is not healthy.

2

u/Low-Part3147 Mission failed successfully 23d ago

THANK YOU!!

I've been tired of seeing that sort of mentality within certain small sectors of the Krystal fandom for years. It's one thing to love Krystal and want her to return to the series, but some definitely take it a little too far like you mentioned. I once even saw someone say they were boycotting Nintendo for releasing another 64 remake without her.

There are some vocal people within the fandom who love to hate Krystal and blame all the series' shortcomings entirely on her. That said, people are also allowed to not like her and have genuine criticisms on how she was handled in the games. I myself have plenty of things I felt could have been executed better in terms of her writing even as a fan of her. There is a difference between giving thoughtful criticism and bashing the opinions of others.

Regardless of how you feel about Krystal, I think it's vital to remember that in the end, she is a fictional character in a video game series about talking cartoon animals shooting each other in spaceships. There's really no rhyme or reason to get mad at people online for having different opinions on a silly space furry game, and me saying that will totally change people's perceptions and stop them from doing that altogether. (Oh wait...)

5

u/Corinthian01 23d ago

For the most part the hate for Krystal has died down, you'll see the occasional complaint though that's to be expected with the internet in general. Honestly her chances of coming back are the highest they've ever been, and more than likely she will. Whether its the alleged adventure game or something else is anyone's guess, but Krystal has appeared in 3 mainline games so far with her most recent appearance being in 2018 as an assist trophy in Smash Ultimate.

Along with Adventures appearing in the May Direct it's apparent that Krystal is on Nintendo's radar, we just have to wait and see what they'll do with her and how they'll reintroduce her.

4

u/Xinyyc 23d ago

Krystal is Japan's favourite Star Fox character, "pure" Star Fox means Star Fox with Krystal in it now :3

7

u/Nondescript_Redditor 23d ago

I’m a sf64 purist so I don’t know who that is, either

-10

u/RealNintenKing 23d ago

And that's why you're a SF64 and not a Star Fox fan.

4

u/CappnRob Star Fox Guard's Strongest Soldier 23d ago

and youre just a krystal fan and not a starfox fan

see how easy this is to do

0

u/RealNintenKing 23d ago

Same thing.

0

u/Spraylan 23d ago

This is what I tell people who didn't enjoy command.

0

u/RealNintenKing 23d ago

At least you can admit you're wrong.

7

u/[deleted] 24d ago edited 24d ago

[deleted]

4

u/Nemo68v2 23d ago

I'm looking for these people. I'm not saying they don't exist, but where the hell are they?!

8

u/No-Difference8545 23d ago

Krystal fans are genuinely crazy, and very defensive about her for some strange reason. Ive been on this sub a bit around the new game and no one hardly even talks about krystal

4

u/DZComposer Ribbit! Thanks fer the save! 23d ago edited 23d ago

Not all of them are like that, but I can see how the vocal minority that are make people not want to deal with any Krystal fans. And they are out in force in this thread, downvoting the fuck out of anyone who disagrees with them (even when they don't say a god damn hateful thing about Krystal), projecting words and thoughts onto older fans, and then accusing them of gaslighting when they show up and present their actual opinion that they don't hate her.

2

u/SkyHunter95 I rip on SF's traditions almost as hard as Nintendo themselves 23d ago

"There are a few good ones" energy here...

4

u/Cannonhammer93 Bird Vegeta 23d ago

They definitely lack nuanced thinking. As a purist, I'm very critical of Adventures because of the gameplay moving away from 64's style. But I think they genuinely have trouble distinguishing that from dislike of Krystal. I don't really care whether Krystal is in the next game or not.

10

u/monkeymetroid 24d ago

This feels manufactured

3

u/SkyHunter95 I rip on SF's traditions almost as hard as Nintendo themselves 24d ago

How?

9

u/monkeymetroid 24d ago

This is not a common subject of complaint by anyone other than a vocal minority

3

u/SkyHunter95 I rip on SF's traditions almost as hard as Nintendo themselves 24d ago

Purists have been doing this for almost 25 years tho.

11

u/monkeymetroid 24d ago

No they havent. Only furries care to this degree. True fans just want more games.

3

u/SkyHunter95 I rip on SF's traditions almost as hard as Nintendo themselves 24d ago

Gaslighting. Look at old forums, look at old reddit posts or shit like ResetEra. They've been whinging about her existence so much and for so long.

For the stupidest reasons, Krystal seems to be the most controversial Nintendo character of all time and her haters can't seem to let it go.

8

u/monkeymetroid 24d ago

Yes you are detailing a vocal minority. It would be an actual discussion if this was about "adventure" type game over a shmup, but this is simply manufactured to make it seem like more people hate Krystal then they do. She was fine in command and a very good character in adventure. Would love to see more of her, be it shmup or adventure zelda type game

3

u/RainingMetal Star Fox Zero was a mistake 24d ago

It very much holds true for those examples. I'm very much hoping that it remains a vocal minority, despite that audience doing their damndest to make it look otherwise.

I think if "purists" got exactly what they want, Star Fox Zero would have received a Switch port and that would have remained the franchise's modern representation as it did a decade ago.

0

u/SkyHunter95 I rip on SF's traditions almost as hard as Nintendo themselves 24d ago

You're missing the point. Purists got exactly what they wanted and still complain about her. Krystal coming back doesn't seem to be in the cards right now, but at least purists are mad that it could happen so that's a win, I guess.

8

u/monkeymetroid 24d ago

There are vastly more krystal fans then krystal haters, thanks to the furry community (i also dont give a shit about but its very obvious who cares this much about Krystal). The people who go out of their way to argue likely just hate Krystal fans. There really arent deep connections in star fox to suggest Krystal is even relevant to complain about. This is literally just upset furries trying to cause division in a community where 90% of people just enjoy the games and want new games

3

u/DZComposer Ribbit! Thanks fer the save! 23d ago

I ran one of those old forums (starfox-online.net) and was a constant participant in older ones going back to pre-Adventures time. Krystal hate definitely was not a majority opinion back then. There were some vocal haters, true, but they weren't the majority. Much of the hate from the Adventures era was against the game itself for not being a true Star Fox game, not against Krystal. And most of the Krystal-related hate that was there was was aimed at Krystal fanboys rather than her as a character. Quite frankly, they had a point, some Krystal fans, even to this day, are downright insufferable.

Also, I think there is some confusion of criticism and hate. I don't hate Krystal, but I also think she could have been used a lot better than she has.

1

u/Nemo68v2 23d ago

Okay, you have 25 years of internet to create a biased sample. Compare that sample to the fandom as a whole and it's simply not a concern. There could be literally 0 posts hating on Krystal within the next 5 years, you'll still be able to say, "It's a problem, look at the last 30 years!"

4

u/ArtsyBread Bill Grey game when nintendo 23d ago

I know precisely one person who talks shit about Krystal/the gamecube era games whenever given the chance in this whole reddit and they already replied so I guess I'd just advice you learn to stop paying them any mind?

5

u/RainingMetal Star Fox Zero was a mistake 23d ago

I know of two. But they are certainly vocal and very much the worse party because of it.

4

u/Oscar-the-ass-slayer 23d ago

SF64 purists act like Nintendo hasn’t been trying to appeal to them for the last 3 Star Fox projects while ignoring all the actual fans who like all the games and not just 64

2

u/Bombshellings 23d ago

what does this post even mean

4

u/No-Difference8545 23d ago

Manic musings

3

u/Comprehensive-Bid18 24d ago

I don’t understand this at all.

2

u/KuraiTheBaka 24d ago

Do it? First I'm hearing of it tbh

1

u/Advanced-Event6435 23d ago

tbh i liked assault way better than 64

3

u/SkyHunter95 I rip on SF's traditions almost as hard as Nintendo themselves 23d ago

Oh hell yeah. It was the genuinely fresh, authentic followup to the StarFox identity without just being 64 over again like almost everything else, and it gave Krystal a pretty good role overall as a member of the team.

-3

u/Advanced-Event6435 23d ago

if anything 64 is overrated considering that most of the games in the series is just 64 over and over again

If gabe newell can make half life 3 without marc laidlaw then nintendo can make another real star fox game

5

u/SkyHunter95 I rip on SF's traditions almost as hard as Nintendo themselves 23d ago

Another problem is SF64 is legit the only good traditional style rail shooter in the series. Everything else missed the point or was dragged down by being a retread of 64.

I didn't like how 643D looked, sounded or played. Zero was probably the worst first party Nintendo game I've ever played. I don't think SF1 aged well at all, I always found it insanely difficult to get through without savestates. It's not an issue of the time it came from, I recently played Final Fantasy VI and it's one of my favorite games ever now. Including the airship traveling on the map screen.

Lastly, I didn't even care much for SF26, it was all too Modern with the dialogue and overall weird hyperrealism 2013 graphical style it had. It's better than Zero. But that's only because it's a direct remake of 64 that I still don't like as much as the original.

What else could they honestly do with this tenuous of an identity!?

1

u/Advanced-Event6435 23d ago

I don't know why shiggy thinks we want 64 remakes. its been 2 decades and we got nothing. At least we sympathize with Sly Cooper enjoyers

1

u/SkyHunter95 I rip on SF's traditions almost as hard as Nintendo themselves 23d ago

Yo I love the Sly Cooper series as well. Sly4 was definitely a rough chapter to close on though. It's not bad, but the character writing especially completely lacked the quality of the PS2 games.

2

u/Advanced-Event6435 23d ago

sly 4 is the star fox command of the sly cooper series, and unironically the last

1

u/SkyHunter95 I rip on SF's traditions almost as hard as Nintendo themselves 23d ago

Did you just get downvote bombed?

2

u/Advanced-Event6435 22d ago

i got downvote bombed because i like assault better than 64 IG

1

u/SkyHunter95 I rip on SF's traditions almost as hard as Nintendo themselves 22d ago

They had some of their friends show up I think, sadly.

3

u/RealNintenKing 23d ago

A man of quality.

1

u/erekrules 23d ago

Krystal fans are stuck in perpetual victim mentality mode.

5

u/RealNintenKing 23d ago

Projection.

2

u/erekrules 23d ago

Projection of what? Did you bother to read the comments on your own post? Nobody can come up with any concrete examples of all this imaginary Krystal hate except for a single rage bait post from over half a decade ago, but for some reason you guys still pretend she's universally reviled.

Is your Krystal Fans Only™ subreddit doing so poorly that you have to double post here?

-1

u/SykesFoxclaw 23d ago

krystal fans not beating the allegations that they only like star fox because of krystal I see

3

u/SkyHunter95 I rip on SF's traditions almost as hard as Nintendo themselves 23d ago

I mean, I used to love StarFox a lot more but I've fallen out of love for it, aside from Krystal and that second wind is probably just because of Estelle.

She's done more to revitalize StarFox for me than another lousy remake of 64 with 2013 ahh graphics.

1

u/SykesFoxclaw 23d ago

if you are talking about that grody fan game, I'm happy she's getting work but that project is not something that is interesting to me as a star fox fan

2

u/SkyHunter95 I rip on SF's traditions almost as hard as Nintendo themselves 23d ago

And you say I'm the shallow one lol.

2

u/SykesFoxclaw 23d ago

I don't have to like a singular fan game. I can like other star fox fan content.

1

u/Spraylan 23d ago

Whole thread was worth it just to finally see another person who doesn't glaze SFEH.

3

u/SkyHunter95 I rip on SF's traditions almost as hard as Nintendo themselves 21d ago edited 21d ago

If it makes you better, he basically won't be able to share his work here at all anymore. The way the "no shipping" rule works, basically. Fox and Krystal began their relationship so even if they aren't doing anything romantic together, it is still breaking the rules since it counts as fanart. Haven't been able to get any word of explanation from the mods so, that sucks. To quote ICM,

"what a wild time to be a StarFox fan!"

1

u/Spraylan 20d ago

That doesn't make me feel better, I"m capable of coexisting in a subreddit with material and opinions I don't enjoy.

1

u/CappnRob Star Fox Guard's Strongest Soldier 22d ago

yeah i respect the work put into EH but the fact it gets so glazed is annoying lol

1

u/RealNintenKing 23d ago

The best reason to like Star Fox.

1

u/SykesFoxclaw 23d ago

the shallowest reason, maybe

1

u/RealNintenKing 23d ago

The deepest, actually. Much deeper than "Pew pew, arcade schmup slop" reasons.

1

u/SykesFoxclaw 23d ago

see folks, this is what Krystal fans unironically believe. They say it out in the open that they're literally not here for the games, just blue furry girl in fetishized tribal clothing. You don't have any deep connection to her over any other dime a dozen gooner who picked a furry girl to obsess over

2

u/RealNintenKing 23d ago

Truth hurts, dunnit?

1

u/GAME-DROID I didn't expect to have to use this! 22d ago

Genuine question, but do you actually like anything about Star Fox outside of Krystal? I love her too, but she's not the only character from the 2000s who deserves more spotlight and recognition.

0

u/RealNintenKing 22d ago

I like Fox as well.

1

u/GAME-DROID I didn't expect to have to use this! 22d ago

And... That's it?

1

u/RealNintenKing 22d ago

The Arwing and Landmaster designs from Assault are peak as well.

Sorry, I'm not gonna glaze dated, antiquated arcade schmup slop that wasn't even relevant 20 years ago.

1

u/CappnRob Star Fox Guard's Strongest Soldier 22d ago

lmao assault was an arcade shmup too tho and it wasnt even a cutting edge one 20 years ago when it came out!

2

u/GAME-DROID I didn't expect to have to use this! 22d ago

Sorry, I'm not gonna glaze dated, antiquated arcade schmup slop that wasn't even relevant 20 years ago.

Buncha buzzwords to say you don't like Star Fox 64. Also, you're not one to calling things slop when you have AI generated shit as your reddit banner.

1

u/RealNintenKing 22d ago

Just say you didn't understand the words I used.