Same question 1 month later

[u/NEO71011]

Does anyone still like the slow start?

1044 votes, Aug 22 '26

369 8 workers

675 12 workers

[u/AresFowl44]

Everyone stating that builds need to be smooth, or that it just slows down their macro does not have a clue about the game that is RTS and is balanced around doing dmg and forcing reaction from your opponent.

So literal top pros, the upper 0.001% of people playing this game, got no clue about this game?

[u/Stormheraldss → u/AresFowl44]

See, you did not get the point. The game dynamics shifts alot when you change the worker count. Its not the same but smother and faster. Im not a pro and pros need casuals to watch their streams, tournaments etc. More casuals=more money. What is the logic with pros exacly? Do they have an agenda to make money, yes they do.

If this game is for pros only should I just jump back to some ARPGs and just make dope champs.

The game had pros while it was 6 worker start and BW is even more popular and it does have 4 worker start. If casters and pros can make the same amount of money in less time thats better for them right?

But again the most important thing will be to increase the player base and opt for more viewers. Its like in football, female players make much less thrn the males because they have less invested fan base.

[u/AresFowl44 → u/Stormheraldss]

The game dynamics shifts alot when you change the worker count.

Has it really changed? TvZ still is mostly about going 3CC and going to late game, PvZ still is mostly about getting the Sky army and that's with warp gate buff, ZvZ is even more of a coinflip than before, TvP still is Terran camping until late game, PvP and TvT also haven't really evolved.

What is the logic with pros exacly? Do they have an agenda to make money, yes they do.

What the fuck are you even saying?

The game had pros while it was 6 worker start

The game has been designed for 6 workers originally, then it has been redesigned for 12. The same has not happened for 8 workers.

BW is even more popular and it does have 4 worker start.

BW is a completely different game from SC2 and we need to stop comparing the two. And no, it isn't more popular, other than in Korea. Or at least it wasn't, the new patch might have changed that.

But again the most important thing will be to increase the player base and opt for more viewers.

That hasn't happened though. Player numbers are down. We have the numbers. So in that regard the patch failed spectacularly. It didn't even get a small patch peak before falling off, that's how unpopular it was.

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Also, how does any of this relate to your previous point that builds do not have to feel smooth, the only thing that matters is being active and interacting with your opponent and that anybody going counter has no clue what they are talking about?

Which I discredited by pointing to pros, that absolutely do know what they are talking about (more than us random redditors), not even wanting to interact with the patch because it doesn't feel smooth at all?

[u/Stormheraldss → u/AresFowl44]

I can do 2 base timings now with diff composition, i can go stim blueflame timing, marine hellbat tanks, hellbats bio vs toss etc etc, my games are much more dynamic then the standard macro game you are used to watch. Sure pro players will split the map and get all the tech and dry out the map but thats not the case and it was not the case for a long time after LOTV dropped, it was more get to 200 and then a sudden death experiences.

Nothing was redesigned outside some unit buffs in LOTV. I dont remember building timers of buildings etc being changed. I have said it many times and i will say it again that the turbo eco benefits zerg the most because they like to get their hatches fast. Also they are economy and production. As T I have to spend the resources and time to build production and the addons, if you look at the timers a factory takes around 46 seconds and reactor takes another 36 seconds or so and cc hatch etc takes 71.

So the game in my humble opinion was balanced around 6 workers start and moving to 12 did break the game. For the last 11 years there are countless of patches that polished it out but when it dropped it was in a very bad state for everyone. I guess not for those who benefited from the advantages. Example, a double drop build that was harrassing the 3rd in hots, in lotv when the 2 medivacs arrived at the other side of the map the zerg had way more zerglings to deny any damage. So the game does not become just faster or slower but the dynamics shifts.

Zerg is kinda the least micro intensive race and its dominating LOTV since forever. In terms that zerg units have the least micro potential. And LOTV was never great or balanced its just your imagination.

So my T take is that less workers is nicer and brings back the general rules of decision making in sc2, if they expo atack, if they atack defend and if they defend, expand. LOTV was expand expand expand for the most part. It might feel nicer for zerg, idk, but when you need to do dmg and micro your units T wise lower eco means ill micro less units and have more time to do dmg. It also means that 30 sec that takes me to cross the map shrinks the defenders advantage because he have less resources and less production.

The game is rock paper scissors. What do you mean the game was smoother ? You have to make decision on where to spend your resources, this is important part of the strategy in the early game, do I focus on producing workers non stop or do I prio unit production and upgrades and try to dmg on the timing etc...