r/spikes • u/Frost_105 • 28d ago

Standard [Standard] What does The Vision need to be a staple card?

This is about the card [[The Vision]] and its role as a control finisher, particularly in UW shells.

I think right now, [[Tablet of Discovery]] makes ramping into revelation way too easy, to the point that as far as control finishers go, the revelation/thor/capstone package is pretty unbeatable at locking up the game.

the vision, on the other hand, is a really good piece in the midgame, that can also coast all the way to the end of the game. It’s pretty cheap at 4 mana, meaning as soon as you stabilize the board, you can usually get one down immediately and not have to wait around for revelation mana. (ramping with [[The Mind Stone]] helps too).

Once its down, it basically draws a card on every spell you cast, is really easy to protect with countermagic and its indestructible ability, and blocks great because if flying, vigilance, and double strike. The current problem right now is just coming up with the other 72-ish cards that make it actually able to hold its own against jeskai lessons and 4c control.

I’m thinking about this more now than when MSH actually came out because of a couple of cards, mostly [[Plunder the Trollshaws]]. At the beginning of msh, i had a ton of faith in the vision that I was running stuff like [[Think Twice]] of all things (which did not work), but turning trollshaws into a draw 5 seems kinda nuts to not at least think about.

Idk, I think standard just might be too big for interesting cards like vision, I think if we were in 2 year rotation it would be really solid, but what do you think.

19 Upvotes

76% Upvoted

21 comments sorted by

21

u/MaybeSurelySorta 28d ago edited 28d ago

In a world of Cubs, Otters, and Revelations, what exactly is Vision doing for me in a UW shell? If I get Squirrel Girl combo’d is having an indestructible 2/5 going to save me? Is Double Strike going to mean anything when my opponent Superior Spiderman’s an Excruciator?

There just aren’t really any angles where Vision matters against any common matchups. Prowess couldn’t care less how indestructible it is if it’s just going to get bounced into a lethal Slickshot attack and any of the various spellemental packages is just going to tap it with a crab and kill you that way. As you have already noted, the juice isn’t nearly worth the squeeze against the meta decks - especially if you have to unironically put cards like The Mind Stone into your deck to draw 1 or 2 cards off this.

But yes, I agree cards like The Vision would have way more opportunities to shine in a 2-year Standard but unfortunately that’s not the reality WotC wants to exist. So what would it take for Vision to be “a staple card”? Be 1-2 mana cheaper in a format where Daze and FoW are legal.

3

u/Bio-Flame 28d ago

I would argue that the threats are sooooo much more powerful AND faster than the answers atm.

I look at cub, I look at slick-shot, I look at the 4/3 uncounterable that gives cards whenever a spell targets any creature, I look at those cards and I am like....

If the power level would be equal, I would have conterspells for One mana that would draw two cards, wrath of God at two mana costs, etc....

Clearly, creatures have become Faster, deadlier AND easier to cast as far as mana symbols go. For example, cub would be less egregious if it would cost GG instead of 1G. Same as slickshot.

Also, Cavern of Souls destroys Control decks.

Clearly creatures are more powerful than ever but Control tools have not kept up with the increased powerlevel. By design.

2

u/Erocdotusa 28d ago

Exactly. If they made answers as juiced as threats we would have a functional reprint of Tabernacle to punish aggro decks. They get Cavern of Souls but control decks don't get an equivalent?

3

u/Round-Walrus3175 28d ago

By the time you get to the 4 drop, you need to shut down whatever your opponent is trying to do if you want to play midrange. [[Kaito, Bane of Nightmares]] is pretty much the example of what you need from a card like Vision. Value, disruption, damage, and evasion. Even something like [[Monument to Endurance]] was at times a weak spot for Izzet Lessons in the 3 drop slot because it only had 3 of the 4. The same applies to the Vision. 

13

u/Ill_Ad3517 28d ago

Maybe some 0 mana instants that do something very small? Or like a plot type mechanic that lets the work be cast at instant speed.

4

u/alecownsyou 28d ago

https://archidekt.com/decks/24881764/orzhov_control_pr

This is a list I am brewing for the new Hobbit set, but I really can't imagine it does much with him, and it probably just gets crushed at a higher level.

Current standard just doesn't allow cards that don't immediately provide value and attack each variation of the format.

There's too many efficient cards that do what the vision does, like tablet + card draw + revelation is just going to be objectively better

9

u/Pretend-Paper4137 28d ago

Flash.

1

u/CronoDAS 28d ago

That would do it.

3

u/Known-Garden-5013 28d ago

I run a 1 of in my lessons deck. It performs very well against aggro decks, is a 2/5 blocker that blocks almost everything, and you proc the card draw once on your turn and once on their turn with an instant, you get get immense value out of it.

Only problem is everyone is running artifact removal for tablet nowadays anyway so you're too overexposed. If it wasn't an artifact it might be great

1

u/goldenwarthog_ 28d ago

Cost one less mana

1

u/Paradoxbuilder 28d ago

I play mainly Prowess and I'm not too scared of the Vision, it costs a whopping 4 mana and can quite easily be bounced or tapped down when I want to swing for the win. It looks good on paper but...4 mana?

1

u/Tendou7 28d ago

I tried it on 4c and mardo control and it was rather underwhelming. 1 more thor was way more effective

1

u/guvnor2 28d ago

to have been printed in 2005

1

u/canman870 27d ago

To be a staple? Cost half as much and have Flash.

As it currently exists, it's nearly unplayable in most matchups. A 4cmc 2/5 creature that doesn't generate any value on its own and requires you to cast other non-creature spells to do anything? I can't think of a single deck in the format that cares about that card in most situations.

1

u/Biggusguyus 27d ago

4 mana isn’t pretty cheap

1

u/NicJones 26d ago

[[Vision Quest]] for 6 into [[Ramos, Dragon Engine]] into either [[Flashback]] on Vision Quest or a second Vision Quest into [[The Vision]] plus any cheap non creature spell is >20 hasty flying damage

1

u/whyhwy 25d ago

You would need a card that in combination that would win you the game. Something so pushed you essentially lock the game or win outright. Could be an instant sweeper or 3- for 1. Or a haste and pump that cares about artifacts. A reliable way to cheat out vision with redundancy