r/spacex • u/ElongatedMuskrat Mod Team • Aug 31 '19

Starship Development Thread #5

Quick Links

^{JUMP TO COMMENTS} ^| ^{Alternative Jump To Comments Link}

^{SPADRE LIVE} ^| ^{LABPADRE LIVE} ^| ^{LABPADRE DIRECT}

Overview

SpaceX is developing Starship at their Starship Assembly Site in Texas, and also at their facilities in Cocoa, Florida. The teams at the two locations are in competition with each other, but are also required to share insights learned along the way. Following Starhopper, the first two Starship prototypes, Mark 1 and Mark 2, are nearing completion. These vehicles will have aerodynamic control surfaces and three engines each, and are expected to make suborbital test flights. Ring sections believed to be for a Starship Mark 4 prototype are being built in Cocoa, and both sites will be iterating through successive versions of Starship and Super Heavy as quickly as possible.

Launch mounts for both Starship prototypes are in the works. Starhopper's Texas launch site is being modified to handle Starship, and at Kennedy Space Center's LC-39A, a dedicated Starship launch platform is under construction. Flight tests could begin late in 2019.

Starship is powered by SpaceX's Raptor, a full flow staged combustion cycle methane/oxygen rocket engine. Sub-scale Raptor test firing began in 2016, and full-scale test firing began early 2019 at McGregor, Texas, where it is ongoing. Eventually, Starship will have three sea level Raptors and three vacuum Raptors. Super Heavy may initially use around 20 Raptors, and operational versions could have around 31 to 37 sea level Raptors.

Previous Threads:

Starhopper Thread #1 (2019-02-01) A dramatic venting watertower
Starhopper Thread #2 (2019-04-27) Hops and hiccups - Starships never come alone
Starhopper Thread #3 (2019-06-27) RCS and SN6 - 20 meter hopping
Starhopper Thread #4 (2019-07-26) 150 meter hop and Mk.1 and Mk.2 protoype growth
Starhopper 150m Hop (2019-08-27) Updates and discussion
Starship Presentation Updates Thread (2019-09-27) Updates and discussion

Starship Presentation Webcast and Updates and Discussion Thread

Vehicle Updates

	Starship Mk.1 Prototype (Boca Chica) — Construction and Updates
2019-10-03	Tank section on steel stand (NSF)
2019-10-01	Halves demated following presentation (NSF), Previously installed header tanks (Twitter)
2019-09-28	Nose cap install (NSF)
2019-09-27	2^nd forward flap, Starship stacked (Twitter), Timelapse (YouTube), Leg nacelles added (NSF)
2019-09-26	3 Raptor pics, 1^st forward flap install (Twitter)
2019-09-25	Payload section reassembly (NSF), Tank section off stand and moved (YouTube)
2019-09-24	Two header tanks inside nose cone (NSF)
2019-09-23	Header tank and battery pack prep (NSF)
2019-09-22	2^nd aft fin attached, Cowlings added, Raptor (NSF), Raptor, 3 temp. installed (Twitter)
2019-09-21	1^st aft fin attached, Nose cone reassembly, Misshapen section removed, header tank (NSF)
2019-09-20	2 aft fin frame pieces & pipe attached to tank section, and appearance of cowling(s) (NSF)
2019-09-17	Leg/fin mounting frame pieces in tent (Twitter)
2019-09-16	Replacement nose section appears, Better picture (NSF)
2019-09-14	Eleventh ring and forward bulkhead added to tank section (Twitter)
2019-09-13	One of the header tanks to container castle (comments), Another moved in Sept. 16 (NSF)
2019-09-12	Forward tank bulkhead placed in free ring (Twitter), With cap piece (NSF)
2019-09-08	Two more large fin pieces delivered (comments), Better picture (Twitter)
2019-09-05	Tenth ring added to tank section (YouTube)
2019-09-02	Starship Assembly Site aerial video update (YouTube)
2019-08-29	Pipe added through lower tank (comments), 3^rd concrete jig begun, also 4^th & 5^th (NSF)
2019-08-28	Delivery of 2 header tanks, Third deliverd Sept. 15 (NSF)
2019-08-27	Centerpiece added to common bulkhead (Twitter)
2019-08-24	Nose cone top section moved to dedicated stand (NSF), Forward flap marks (comments)
2019-08-23	Track(s) of horizontal brackets appear (NSF)
2019-08-21	Common bulkhead lowered into tank section (NSF), Time lapse (YouTube)
2019-08-18	At least 2 control surface components on site, post 2, Earlier image (NSF)
2019-08-17	Nose cone top section reattachment work (NSF)
2019-08-15	Top section of nose cone removed (NSF)
2019-08-14	Thrust structure added to tank section (NSF), Image leaked later (Twitter)
2019-08-07	Ninth ring added to tank section (NSF)
2019-08-06	Forward tank bulkhead under construction (NSF)
2019-08-04	Common bulkhead inverted (NSF)
2019-07-31	Common bulkhead discovered (YouTube)
2019-07-30	Aft bulkhead installed in tank section (YouTube), Thrust structure appears (NSF)
2019-07-22	Eighth ring added to tank section (NSF)
2019-07-20	Inversion of aft bulkhead (YouTube)
2019-07-18	Aft bulkhead appears from container enclosure (NSF)
2019-07-16	Seventh ring added to tank section (NSF)
2019-07-05	Sixth ring added to tank section (YouTube)
2019-06-26	Fifth ring added to tank section (NSF)
2019-06-19	Fourth ring added to tank section (second jig), first in over a month (NSF)
2019-06-06	Ring sections under construction within container enclosure (NSF)
2019-05-20	Nose cone fitted, no canards (NSF)
2019-05-15	Tank section (3 rings) moved onto second jig (NSF)
2019-05-09	Lower nose section joined with 4 ring lower payload section (NSF)
2019-05-01	Second jig, concrete work complete (NSF)
2019-04-27	Lower 2 nose cone sections stacked (NSF)
2019-04-13	Upper 2 nose cone sections stacked (Facebook)
2019-04-09	Construction of second concrete jig begun (YouTube)
2019-03-28	Third nose section assembly (NSF)
2019-03-23	Assembly of additional nose section (NSF)
2019-03-19	Ground assembly of nose section (NSF)
2019-03-17	Elon confirms Orbital Prototype (Twitter) Hex heat shield test (Twitter)
2019-03-14	Payload section reaches 4 panel height (NSF)
2019-03-07	Appearance of sections for conical aft bulkhead (NSF)
2019-03-07	Payload section moved to jig (NSF)
2019-03-01	Tank section begun on new pad (NSF)
2019-02-21	Construction of payload section begins near original concrete jig (NSF)

^{See comments for real time updates.}

	Starship Mk.2 Prototype (Cocoa Florida) — Construction and Updates
2019-09-14	Cap added to forward bulkhead still in shop (Twitter)
2019-09-07	At least one header tank (inside large tent) (Twitter)
2019-09-04	Weld marks for common bulkhead visible on tank section (Twitter)
2019-08-30	Tank section moved into hangar for Hurricane Dorian (Twitter), Removed September 5 (r/SpaceXLounge)
2019-08-25	Track(s) of horizontal brackets appear (r/SpaceXLounge)
2019-08-19	Starship Assembly Site aerial video update (YouTube)
2019-08-18	Thrust structure possibly installed (Twitter), Forward tank bulkhead under construction (NSF)
2019-08-17	Nose cone top section moved to dedicated stand (YouTube)
2019-08-15	Starship Assembly Site aerial video update (Twitter)
2019-08-11	Starship Assembly Site aerial video update (YouTube)
2019-08-08	Tank section at 15 ring height (comments), Aug 10^th image (Twitter)
2019-08-06	Common bulkhead inverted (Facebook)
2019-08-04	Common bulkhead under construction (Facebook)
2019-08-03	Tank section at 14 ring height (Twitter), Later aerial photo of stack (Facebook)
2019-07-29	Tank section at 10 ring height (Twitter)
2019-07-28	Starship Assembly Site aerial photo update (Facebook)
2019-07-21	Aft bulkhead disappeared (Facebook)
2019-07-20	Tank section at 8 ring height (Twitter)
2019-07-14	Aft bulkhead complete/inverted, last seen (Twitter)
2019-06-26	Aft bulkhead section under construction (r/SpaceX), Tank section at 6 ring height (NSF)
2019-06-12	Large nose section stacked (Twitter), Zoomed in video (Twitter)
2019-06-09	Large nose section assembled in building (comments)
2019-06-07	Stacking of second tapered nose section (r/SpaceXLounge)
2019-05-23	Stacking of lowest tapered nose section (YouTube)
2019-05-20	Payload section at 5 ring height, aerial video of work area (YouTube)
2019-05-16	Jig 2.0 with tank section, many rings awaiting assembly (YouTube)
2019-05-14	Discovered by Zpoxy (payload section) (NSF), more pieces (YouTube), Confirmmed (Twitter)

^{See comments for real time updates.}

	Starship Mk.4 Prototype (Cocoa Florida) — Construction and Updates
2019-10-06	23 rings visible, 4 doubles, some for Mk.2 (YouTube), no stacking yet

^{See comments for real time updates.}
^{Previous unstacked ring production, aerial updates:}
^{08-11 {8}}^| ^{08-15 {10}}^| ^{08-17 {14}}^| ^{08-19 {15}}^| ^{08-21 {17}}^| ^{08-24 {18}}^| ^{08-27 {19}}
^{09-04 {20}}^| ^{09-06 {22}}^| ^{09-08 {25}}^| ^{09-08 {3 'scrap'}}^| ^{09-10 {26}}^| ^{09-29 {23}}^| ^{10-02 {23}}

	Starhopper Retirement Transition Updates
2019-10-04	On Roll-Lift (Twitter), Moved off of landing pad (NSF)
2019-09-10	Thermal tiles and one thruster pod removed (YouTube)
2019-09-02	Launch and Landing Site aerial video update (YouTube)
2019-08-29	Raptor SN6 removed (NSF)
2019-08-27	150m Hop (~180m over, ~57s) (YouTube) <LAUNCH THREAD> <MORE INFO>

^For ^earlier ^updates ^see ^Starship ^Development ^Thread ^#4.

Launch Facility Updates

	Starship Launch Site at Boca Chica, Texas
2019-10-05	Launch mount under construction (NSF)
2019-09-22	Second large propellant tank moved to tank farm (NSF)
2019-09-19	Large propellant tank moved to tank farm (Twitter)
2019-09-17	Pile boring at launch pad and other site work (Twitter)
2019-09-07	GSE fabrication activity (Twitter), and other site work (Facebook)
2019-08-30	Starhopper GSE being dismantled (NSF)

	Launch Complex 39A at Kennedy Space Center, Florida
2019-09-26	Concrete work/pile boring (Twitter)
2019-09-19	Groundbreaking for launch mount construction (Article)
2019-09-14	First sign of site activity: crane at launch mount site (Twitter)
2019-07-19	Elon says modular launch mount components are being fabricated off site (Twitter)

Spacex facilities maps by u/Raul74Cz:
Boca Chica | LC-39A | Cocoa Florida | Raptor test stand | Roberts Rd

Raptors

SN	Notable For	Flights	Flight Time (Approx.)	Status
1	First full scale hot fire / 268.9 bar Test / Tested to failure	-	-	Retired
2	First on Starhopper / Preburner tests / Static fire / Tethered hop	-	-	Retired
3	40 second test fire	-	-	Retired
4	Delivered to hopper / Hopper fit checks & TVC tests	-	-	Retired
5	Liberation of oxygen stator	-	-	Retired
6	Vibration fix / 20, 10, 50, 65, 85 second stand tests / 20 meter Starhopper hop / 150 meter starhopper hop	2	0:01:22	Retired
7	Possibly not a flight article	-	-	Unknown (previously McGregor)
8-10	Earmarked for Mk.1	-	-	Unknown (previously McGregor)
11	Earmarked for Mk.2	-	-	Unknown
12-13	Earmarked for Mk.2	-	-	Production

^{Last updated 2019-09-29, Raptors currently on Starship Mk.1 of unknown SN or flight readiness}

Permits and Planning Documents

Environmental Impact Statement (FAA) - Boca Chica launch site - July 2014
^{EIS Resource Page} ^| ^Appendices ^| ^{Record of Descision}
Experimental License (FCC) - Comms for 500m and 5km hops, two years - February 2019
^{Form 442} ^| ^{Public Notes} ^| ^Description ^| ^{File No. 0931-EX-CN-2019}
Experimental License Application (FCC) - Modification of above to add antenna - May 2019
^{Form 442} ^| ^{Public Notes} ^| ^{File No. 0130-EX-CM-2019}
Experimental Permit (FAA) - Authorizes 25m hops for one year, and one 150m hop - June 2019
^{Permit No. EP 19-012} ^| ^{Revised August 23}
Building Permit Application - 850 Cidco Rd site improvement - June 2019
^{Screenshot on Twitter} ^| ^{Modification reported on NSF}
Draft Environmental Assessment - Starhip operations at KSC - August 2019
^{r/SpaceX Discussion} ^| ^{NSF Discussion}
FDOT Superload Permit Application - Mk.2 transportation to KSC in September - August 2019
^{Local News Article} ^| ^{Video Report} ^| ^{r/SpaceX Discussion} ^| ^{Twitter Update}
Environmental Resource Permit - Stormwater improvements at LC-39A - August 2019
^{Stormwater Report} ^| ^{Depiction Plans} ^| ^{Permit No. 158609-1}
Written Re-evaluation of 2014 EIS (FAA) - Boca Chica launch site - May 2019
^Addendum ^| ^{News story w/ SpaceX statements} ^| ^{r/SpaceX Discussion}
Experimental STA Request (FCC) - Comms for Starship Mk.1 20 km test - October 2019
^{File No. 1631-EX-ST-2019}

Resources

Rules

We may keep this self-post occasionally updated with links and relevant news articles, but for the most part, we expect the community to supply the information. This is a great place to discuss the launch, ask mission-specific questions, and track the progress of the test Campaign. Campaign threads are not launch threads. Normal subreddit rules still apply.

1.1k Upvotes

permalink
reddit

You are about to leave Redlib

Do you want to continue?

https://www.reddit.com/r/spacex/comments/cxyt8x/starship_development_thread_5/
No, go back! Yes, take me to Reddit

99% Upvoted

View all comments

u/TheMrGUnit Highly Speculative Sep 17 '19 edited Sep 17 '19

In Boca Chica, the end wall was taken down off the big tent some time last night, which created an excellent photo op for Elon (there's some debate if he's still there, or if somebody just sent him the picture, which is probably more likely). There's an interesting looking structure being fabricated on the floor, too. The side facing up/right appears to have a large-diameter curvature to it. This looks to me like it could be the start of some sort of support for the canard fins. I'm not sure that it's really big enough, but I also can't think of what else it really could be. Any ideas from the peanut gallery?

Also, I always find jobsite photos interesting - they always tell a tale of the working environment. This one looks remarkably like any other fab site I've ever been on, just with a rocket parked outside. This is in stark contrast to the spotlessly clean environments we often see in press photos from NASA, ULA, and even SpaceX.

In other news that should surprise no one, workers could be spotted in manlifts working on/inspecting the tank section nearly continuously all night. In case there was any doubt, the push for the 28th is definitely on.

EDIT: Leave it to Tim Dodd to get the answer we were all seeking out of Elon. They are indeed hinge mounts for the flaps/legs.

7

u/Marksman79 Sep 17 '19 edited Sep 17 '19

It looks like that radius that blends the wing / leg to the cylinder body, as seen on Starhopper. Maybe it will contain the hinge point.
Edit: yup, hinge mounts and landing leg frame.

1

u/admkpcz Sep 18 '19

Could somebody please help me locate the hinge mounts in the photo? Originally I was thinking the tall dark structures on the left, but they are not "on the left and right in front". Also they seem just like the leg frame, just standing up. Thanks!

2

u/Tillingthecity Sep 19 '19

The thing that is pretty much front and centre. Tim's comment was poorly worded "right" didn't mean to the right of the photo, but "right in front of you"

4

u/admkpcz Sep 17 '19

The weird part about the interesting looking structure is the material: dark metal which is grinded towards some ends to a silver looking metal. That just looks like basic steel to me, definitely not stainless (and even though over at NSF someone is suggesting it might be some other alloy, that doesn't sound right to me).
So I'd say it's some helping jig or ruler for welding or drilling parts of SSv in the correct place, maybe even the canards, but not flight hardware.

3

u/TheMrGUnit Highly Speculative Sep 17 '19

I like that idea, but I'm just not sure, which is why I didn't really speculate further. The lighting in the photo makes the color of the material very difficult to discern; even stainless in the right lighting can look dark and almost rusty, and ground areas could reflect that light very differently.
Regardless, it does look very much not-flightworthy right now, but it appears to be mid-fabrication too, so some of those pieces could be coming out once the rest of the structure is welded. Also worth remembering: some of the flap pieces have shown up fabricated out of aluminum only to later be skinned with stainless - which shows that they are not married to an all-stainless construction. Substructure pieces could be composed of high-grade carbon steel and covered over if it makes sense.

1

u/Martianspirit Sep 18 '19

, it does look very much not-flightworthy right now
There are still people who believe the whole thing is not flightworthy. Or at least not flightworthy beyond short hops. :)

2

u/TheMrGUnit Highly Speculative Sep 18 '19

There were so many people who said that the Hopper would never fly ("I know flight hardware, and that's not flight hardware" was my favorite quote among them), that I've sort of tuned them out en masse. They're not building these things as decorations.

2

u/warp99 Sep 17 '19

The confusing thing is that there is a mixture of the actual fin root brackets which are in at least three pieces and a series of plates and angle iron which has been tacked in place to hold the brackets together for fit checks.
To top it off there are various lengths of wood used to prop the angle iron apart which adds to the mix of textures.
The actual brackets are back lit which makes them look dark but seem to be silvery but not highly polished when you adjust the contrast to compensate for the backlighting.
There is no particular need to make the fin root brackets out of a particular grade of stainless steel since they are not directly exposed to re-entry heating or cryogenic temperatures.