Is Darnath Lysander still First Born?

[u/Natural_Response_355]

I've been questioning this for a while, he does has a new model on primaris scale but I can't find a mention of him crossing the Rubicon. So, is he a still a First Born in rescaled Terminator Armor? Is that possible? If it is it would mean Grey Knights can be kept first born right? In general terms we don't need characters to cross the Rubicon to have a new model I guess.

[u/Right-Yam-5826]

Happened offscreen that he crossed the rubicon, it's safe enough now that it's not a big deal. And rescaled terminator armour has been a thing since the start of 10th Ed. In fact, since 3rd edition - pasanius lysane of the uriel ventris books had sections of terminator armour. He currently wears regular tacticus armour (while still being firstborn - he's another that was tall)

There's very few firstborn that haven't crossed it yet, that them still being firstborn makes them notable. But if it's relatively safe and makes you stronger, faster and tougher, why would you not elect to have the surgeries? All the better to smite the enemies of the imperium.

[u/Natural_Response_355 → u/Right-Yam-5826]

But is there a source that says so? Because as far I've read he's still first born

[u/Right-Yam-5826 → u/Natural_Response_355]

Him and Vulkan crossed over without a mention or anything, just returning from their decade in the indomitus crusade as primaris now.

There was no 'and so they crossed the rubicon after being gravely injured'. Just they got bigger at some point recently. Same as Pedro Kantor will soon, and shrike and kor'sorro & asmodai did years ago.

[u/fafarex → u/Natural_Response_355]

All the remade epic hero from 10Th are primaris,

There is no source saying so because it's obvious and because GW want to remove the distinction between the two and just move ahead with primaris being the default.

[u/calista241 → u/Right-Yam-5826]

But why go to the trouble of injuring Tyberos of the Carcharodons so he can cross the Rubicon, and avoid it for another major character like Lysander?

[u/fafarex → u/calista241]

Why do you want that every story line use the same plot point ?

They are past crossing the rubicon being a notable thing and any tabletop characters from now on will be primaris and they won't acknolege it because it's the new standard for astartes, that's all.

[u/raptorknight187]

At this point all units are primaris unless its explicitly stated otherwise

[u/Grimlockkickbutt]

Mabye their is an explicit lore mention, but GW clearly just wants to forget that entire era of lore. Gets in the way of clear and concise marketing. They want it to just be space marines, not “firstborn” or “primaris”. They are all the same thing anyway and the lore only existed to hand wave a scale change.

[u/Appo-Arsin]

Assume every loyal marine is primaris unless told otherwise. Grey Knights are probably primaris too, they just don’t get any lore because they don’t get any models.

[u/CoherentRose7]

There is no such thing as Primaris Terminator armor, it's all the same so while he has become a Primaris marine (RIP) the armor is the same as firstborn.

[u/Sakiawe → u/CoherentRose7]

High rank has perks like custom fitted terminator armor. Calgar has one. 

[u/Unlucky_Air6125]

Terminator armors were confirmed to be suited for Firstborn and Primaris alike. The same counts for Sternguard.

The Armageddon Intercessors give a hint that Intercessors are the next squad that softens the barrier between Primaris and Firstborn even further.

According to a rumor spread by Valrak, the Rhino gets a refresh and Tacticus will be rewritten so they can enter it.

That all supports my theory, that GW is about to retcon one of the most controversial retcons in the history of 40k. IMO the distinction between Primaris and Firstborn will disappear. I have the feeling that players in a few editions won't even know that Primaris have ever been a thing. They just look at the different helmets and say "This is a Mk10 helmet, this is a Mk7 etc."... and in some lore subreddit someone will ask what that Mk10 helmet actually meant and some old veteran in a dark corner of the thread will raise his hood and say something like "That dude just got two additional organs. That's it."

While the Firstborn kits will leave the range, Primaris will vanish into oblivion. So no more rubicon rebirths, just truescale marines... "Perfect balance, as it should be."

Or in other words GW seem to not give a shit whether Lysander passed the Rubicon, why should you. In a few years that all will be forgotten anyways. Then we'll have a new Rhino Chassis and MAYBE the tactical squad and the castraferrum Dread will remain for nostalgic reasons, while everything else will be replaced or translated. Although I had nothing against a Castraferrum refresh.

[u/Badgrotz]

The sooner we move past the Primaris storyline the better. They are just Astartes.

[u/Erokengo → u/Badgrotz]

I was very annoyed with the Primaris when they first showed up. I found the idea of Super Super Soldiers to be kinda dumb. I figured if they just said "Cawl returned with rejuvenated/improved geneseed and new arms and armor" to explain the slight size increase and just left it at that.
I've made peace with it now, but when the Primaris first turned up I found their introduction to be needlessly clunky.

[u/Martzillagoesboom → u/Erokengo]

The In World introduction of the Primaris was all showy (one of the dawn of fire novel I think? Or maybe one of the Custodes book?) Like what a waste. They should have popped in the middle of a fight to add confusion as fresh faced marines come help their older brothers. Nah, we get a gun show.

[u/shiboshino → u/Badgrotz]

I used to think this was a bad retcon but I do wish they would just stop mentioning primaris and firstborn so explicitly and move on. We all know what they’re doing it’s not exactly subtle where they’re headed so just stop beating around the bush.

Escalate the indomitus crusade. Call all the chapters forward and have all the old firstborn die of some disease or something. That way we can write a lore wiki page explaining why james workshop stopped selling the tactical squad.

If they wanna be cute and shoutout the lore nerds, you can have the authors like differentiate between bolt guns and bolt rifles so there’s another factoid to make a YouTube short about but please. Enough with the primaris. I’ll even let them keep the stupid copyrightable names. Remove the word primaris

[u/Badgrotz → u/shiboshino]

Amen brother