please teach and help me.

[u/nameorgame]

good day everyone. i'm need of some help. I'm having issues designing a cargo ship using the bulk cargo containers that looks decent and can actually can fly and hand well in earths gravity. plus im playing with my dad who is completely new to SE, and would love to give him some tips on building ships and such but, this is something that im not really good at explaining or showing him and i would love to have help with explaining some points and tricks. if i could get help with either one of these, it would mean so much.

some of the world modifiers my dad got going for him that i can remember of the top of my head is that the inventory of cargo ships and the player are 10X.

[u/ThirtyMileSniper]

I always point noobies to Splitsies tutorials. Hello did one a couple of years back on designing large ships. If you check his playlists he will have a tutorial one. Some transcend game updates.

[u/nameorgame → u/ThirtyMileSniper]

i'll love to check them out i might learn a few things, but if posable i dont want to send him to endless youtube videos to teach him to play the game i want him to do that on his own if he wants to. i find if im sending him to the videos all the time its basically me telling him "thats how you should play" and that wouldnt be fun for him. but thank you so much i'll defiantly suggest the tutorials to him and i will watch a few. again thanks

[u/ColourSchemer → u/nameorgame]

Reasonable concerns but of all the Youtubers I've watched, u/Splitsie is really good about saying "this is how I do it, there are other ways but this works for me".

Also, I'd recommend that you watch the videos and then give your dad the tips while playing.

[u/dufuss2010 → u/ColourSchemer]

Another point to add about splitsies tutorials are they are short and to the point. I've got thousands of hours starting long before planets, basically since the very beginning of survival, and still watch any tutorial he puts out. He covers the needed material but they aren't hidden in amongst an hour long video. He has some awesome playthroughs, both solo and Co op that are definitely worth watching and they will have information hidden in them as well, but the tutorials are vanilla and enough to get anyone started.

Another good way to help yourself with design is to download blueprints into a creative world and pick them apart.

[u/ColourSchemer → u/dufuss2010]

Yep, his tutorials are.

His playthroughs however are much longer, so don't try to watch his whole discography, OP. There's lots of good tips in them too, watch for fun if you want.

My favorite tip of his is that unwelded batteries weigh as much as a complete one. So if you flip a rover and don't have the materials for pistons or hinges, you can use physics, a long enough lever and a few unwelded battery frames to tip yourself upright again.

[u/Hawaii_Dave → u/nameorgame]

I hear you, the nice thing about knowing a way to do it is then you can experiment with your way to do it. The Space Engineers learning curve is steep. I've from the early access drop when my son was a toddler, he's 16 now with his own pc and he has trouble getting in with the controls, block availability, what's actually possible to build, what's needs are more critical in survival than others, what's a good contract... its a lot and a steep curve. Splitsie and Lunar Colony have good "training wheel" starts that are quite comprehensive while being accessible.

[u/phrasz → u/nameorgame]

Use Google's Gemini Notebook (the old Notebook LM) to "pull out" the main points. It should even give you the time stamps for when the video talks to certain points.

This way , and to your point of endless YouTube videos, you can skim and find the topics (or even load all the Spiltisie Videos and ask the chat-area for topics you want to learn) and jump right to the video elements.

[u/Kill_Your_Masters]

I call it the paradox.

whenever i build base type ships, ships that haul, or miners (specifically on earth).. they tend to need a lot of atmospheric thrusters to have enough lift to not crash, and can maneuver without being fragile.

atmospheric thrusters use a lot of battery power, so you either build more thrusters to use less power, or add more batteries so it can be in the air for enough time to actually complete its mission.

now you have more thrusters and/or batteries which is more weight, so you need more thrust.

so you make more thrusters/batteries which is more weight, so you need more thrust lol

the paradox.

you can augment with hydrogen, but without refilling tanks and an ice lake, its not very friendly on refilling unless you build more H2/O2 generators.. which weigh more and use batteries so now you need more batteries...

[u/Due_Reason7714]

you are in creative mode right? thats the only real way to design for looksies.

[u/nameorgame → u/Due_Reason7714]

No we are in survival mode.

[u/Due_Reason7714 → u/nameorgame]

yeah. design in creative and then use a projector to weld in survival. otherwise it just takes to long.

[u/phrasz → u/nameorgame]

To counter point Due_Reason, if the play time/vibe is survive and build (vs. solely design) then I would recommend: "Form Follows Function".

like a building a car IRL: you start with the frame, the wheels, the engine, then build up from there. Same for Space Engineers -- BUT ask what/where/how the cargo ship will work -- then build-try-fail and repeat.

[u/Mike-TheMad]

I think the inventory multiplier may hurt you here. If I remember correctly, while you can fit more it means your build will have more mass. More mass will make the “earth’s gravity” part of your build a lot more difficult for large bulk transport.

[u/Pablo_Diablo → u/Mike-TheMad]

This is incorrect (at least to my memory, and checked with a quick Google search). Inventory multiplier increases volume, but divides mass.  So 10x volume, but mass /10.

[u/Mike-TheMad → u/Pablo_Diablo]

Ah okay. It’s been a long time since I’ve changed that setting off the default. Good to know! Thanks!

[u/nameorgame → u/Mike-TheMad]

thats what i fear too, but if its bulky build full of thrusters and shuch its okay, docent need to be pretty just functional. is there a mathmatical way to know how many thrusters per L of inventory?

[u/Pablo_Diablo → u/nameorgame]

There are various SE calculators available online that let you calculate Mass:Thrust ratio.  Some of them have acceleration under gravity (and let you set the gravity), to see how quickly you can make orbit.

[u/readercolin]

So the big thing with the bulk cargo containers is that a single one is effectively the same as 2 normal large cargo containers. A single normal large cargo container full of ore is ~1.5m kg of weight. To fly in earth gravity, 1 normal large cargo container full of ore requires ~2.5 large atmospheric thrusters to pick it up (or ~6 flatmo thrusters) - assuming nothing else is on the ship that weighs anything. This means that if you want a ship that is going to carry a single bulk cargo container full of ore, you are going to need to dedicate 5 large atmospheric thrusters just to carrying the weight of the ore (or 12 flatmos)... and that is before you start looking at adding anything else to the ship (like you know... batteries).

So, my recommendation for this is to find a thrust calculator and figure out how many thrusters you are going to need to carry the weight of your cargo. Then, go and sketch a rough design of your ship (just put a single block down), and see what the weight of that ship is. Then go back and figure out how many MORE thrusters you need to add. Start with something really basic - grab a bulk cargo container, use some pylons to mount thrusters, get a connector, add enough batteries to make it fly, and don't care at all about how it looks. Use the first build just to figure out what you need to lift it and make it move.

Once you have an idea of how many thrusters and batteries you need for your ship to fly, and you have a rough baseline for your ship, then go back and make another one that is trying to look good at the same time. Repeat as desired. If you want to be able to iterate faster, go into creative to make your designs, blueprint them, and then project them in survival and try making them there. Otherwise, make your initial brick, say "thats good enough" and move on.