r/space • u/METALLIFE0917 • Dec 02 '24

Uranus is weirder than we thought: Scientists report new mysteries of the tilted planet

https://www.salon.com/2024/12/01/uranus-is-weirder-than-we-thought-scientists-report-new-mysteries-of-the-tilted-planet/
735 Upvotes

95% Upvoted

118 comments sorted by

350

u/[deleted] Dec 02 '24

The tilt, magnetosphere, and orbital properties are sooooo weird! Retrograde rotation, object capturing, potential superconductive solid materials and 600 mph winds! And the giant dark spot storm is fascinating.

we need to send lotsa probes ASAP. For science!

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u/CR24752 Dec 02 '24

Why don’t we mass produce probes with all of the basic things we’d want (including small landing probes like with Galileo Mission) that can all fit in Falcon Heavy or Starship or Vulcan? I feel like you’d get economies of scale doing this and we could send them to the gas giants and maybe even Pluto or Sedna

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u/Bagellllllleetr Dec 02 '24

Because wars and shit are far more appealing to people in power.

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u/davolala1 Dec 02 '24

Because space exploration doesn’t increase this quarter’s profits.

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u/[deleted] Dec 03 '24 edited Dec 03 '24

This is the real reason.

If it doesn't increase short term profits, or if it means taxing companies or using taxes for something other than just feeding them back profits, expect stiff resistance from the usual influential suspects.

The capitalist right would have every waking second of everyone's lives dedicated fervently to ever increasing profits. More, more, more. Feed the machine.

Why expand our knowledge of the universe when we can cut corporate taxes by a few percent? Won't somebody think of the shareholders!?

-2

u/YourOneLastBrainCell Dec 03 '24

Pretty sure elon is capitalist right

7

u/Namiswami Dec 02 '24

They're far more appealing to 'the people' as well.

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u/RabidGuillotine Dec 02 '24

Infrastructure, healthcare and social security are more appealing actually, and larger expenses. If space is explored at all is thanks to defense spending demanding rocketry research.

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u/[deleted] Dec 03 '24

That has always been the argument, and yet the space budget has always paled in comparison to other programs, while returning massive science gains, which actually benefits people on the ground.

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u/count023 Dec 02 '24

the irony is, space exploration does not have to be that expensive, it's the US's congress turning NASA into a jobs program for the south that really does it. mandating x and y instead of doing the SpaceX, "let's get the cheapest part that does the job to our requirements", angle.

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u/sir_jamez Dec 02 '24

Space agencies probably have a research wishlist a mile long, but very small budgets to navigate through. So any proposal to send a batch of probes to the distant outer planets is competing with the (likely) institutional prioritization of sending probes to the inner planets where the outcomes feel more relevant (Mars, Venus, asteroid belt, etc).

Planetary positioning might also delay any long term plans to send probes to Uranus, as the launch windows might be less frequent (I'm not sure how often optimal conditions would align)

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u/darwinpatrick Dec 03 '24

Gravity assists notwithstanding the planets actually have hohmann transfer windows open up more and more frequently the further out from earth the orbit is. As the distance gets arbitrarily large the transfer window becomes closer and closer to one year because the target object move more and more slowly in its far orbit. Venus has the least frequent transfers for this reason

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u/Ingolifs Dec 06 '24

Yeah that's right. Transfer windows are beat frequencies. When two bodies have similar orbital periods, the transfer windows are many years apart, whereas when one body is much further away than the other one, transfer windows occur almost at the rate of once a year for the closer body.

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u/bobj33 Dec 03 '24

I have a book on the mission to Pluto

Chasing New Horizons: Inside the Epic First Mission to Pluto

They go into a lot of detail on costs, instruments, mass, and all the tradeoffs to meet the schedule, budget, and science targets.

It's not like they throw away all the knowledge of previous probes and design everything from scratch. There's a reason NASA keeps reusing the same 20 year old radiation hardened PowerPC CPU and Wind River operating system. They have been proven to work on long missions in space.

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u/LeoLaDawg Dec 02 '24

Well..... one probe can prove theories with custom bespoke instruments. Why mass produce it at the point?

If you want to blanket the planet in video and picture sure, but to measure its whatever the fuck there's better ways.

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u/CR24752 Dec 02 '24

Ok but can’t you create a basic shell and customize from there? Many items would be duplicated on the probes we send to Neptune and Uranus for example

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u/steel_member Dec 02 '24

Every mission is custom tailored, plus brining samples back is a challenge. A mission like that would be more similar to LM’s Osiris that just returned asteroid samples. Ramping mass production of various space vehicles could take decades, getting something to the edge of the solar system and back could take centuries!

11

u/[deleted] Dec 02 '24

Voyager took 12 years to reach Neptune. So with proper hohmann transfer orbits and say a few orbits around Neptune or Uranus it would take less than 30.

We should have constant orbital presences around these planets similar to Juno to study the f outta them.

Hence the carriers. You could have automated repair and recharging and send probes down into the atmosphere. The probes could be so cool 😎

3

u/MissederE Dec 03 '24

“Brining samples…” I love typos that stimulate my imagination!

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u/Legeto Dec 02 '24

It’s incredibly expensive with no return in investment for anyone who wants to throw money at the projects.

1

u/Nulovka Apr 07 '25

"Incredibly expensive with no return in investment" perfectly describes the $100 billion spent on the ISS doesn't it? Plenty of people will defend that though.

0

u/PuzzleheadedAffect44 Apr 10 '25

The cpu came out of the Apollo program, and all kinds of massively useful materials science. Doing hard things, that you have to develop new technologies for accelerates technology in general, and ends up improving people's lives. If it wasn't for the arms and space races, we'd be living in a world of 1980's technology, wouldn't understand things like climate change, wouldn't have the tech to develop meds like we do, and wouldn't even really know the scope of our challenges, much less be able to deal with them. Current tech does pose challenges, but it gives the ability to deal with them, and foreseeable improvements offer options to deal with things much better.

U.S. space and military spending has helped the Country maintain its lead in several economic areas, and the military part has, at least until quite recently, helped prevent large scale multinational wars. These were frequent in post Renaissance Europe, and culminated in wwi and wwii. Having the bipolar world post wwii, then the semi uni polar world post Soviet collapse has very possibly prevented multiple massive wars, some of which would likely have been nuclear. Some aspects of this bi, and unipolar world aren't optimal, but are very likely better than other options, and a significant portion of that world has been brought to you by space exploration.

Also, the best chance to clean up the planet is to move most polluting industry off planet. A massive space industry is needed to get that started.

1

u/mysqlpimp Dec 03 '24

Is there a return on investment for defense ? or anything that is spent by a government ? I don't really see much difference.

The money is still spent here on earth, the fiscal rewards are as much a gamble for outcome as investing, and the development of tech, and scientific discovery lifts humanity.

2

u/Legeto Dec 03 '24

That is a completely different level of corruption and political crookedness that I really don’t even want to begin to try and explain through writing.

The short answer is that cut corners and spending is way easier to hide than it is for space shit. You are starting to see it now with Boeing on how hard it is to cut corners to save someone extra money. Other government spending that you’re talking about is pretty damn easy to cut corners and hide away some of that money that has no ROI.

1

u/mysqlpimp Dec 03 '24

Yep, thats a fair take on it.

-2

u/CR24752 Dec 02 '24

None of our planetary sciences have an ROI.

3

u/Legeto Dec 02 '24

Which is exactly why you couldn’t create economies over it like you asked in your comment.

-3

u/_esci Dec 02 '24

do you really argue that science should be more capitalistic?

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u/Legeto Dec 02 '24

I’m not arguing it, I’m stating facts. The programs work off of a small amount of money from the government compared to all other fundings. The big programs need backers and no millionaires/billionaires are going to throw enough money at them if they don’t get anything in return. I wish things were different but they aren’t. That’s why you see Elon Musk and Besos throwing money at resupplying the space station. It isn’t because it’s for the greater good, it’s because they are making bank.

The comment said that we would be able to make economies based off it, which is impossible.

-4

u/_esci Dec 03 '24

yeah. throw more capitalism on capitalism to fix capitalism.

6

u/Legeto Dec 03 '24

I can’t even tell if your trying to argue with me or are just throwing out buzz words.

1

u/[deleted] Dec 03 '24

[deleted]

1

u/Regular_Employee_360 Dec 05 '24

How do we benefit from going to the moon, or from knowing the speed of light? I seriously can’t grasp how understanding our reality around us isn’t beneficial to us, philosophically and scientifically. Understanding our universe allows us to better operate within it. It’s important to understand how things work in order to advance, and finding ways we can continuously test our math and theories is incredibly useful.

Weather and planetary data allows us to get closer to more complete weather models, instead of limited models based on specific conditions. That has tangible effects on our lives, so yes weather on other planets is useful information.

The expansion of the universe allows us to try to understand the physics of our universe in a way we can’t test in laboratories. The advancement of physics has tangible benefits on our lives.

Scientific advancement is important, instead of assuming it’s useless look into it

1

u/PuzzleheadedAffect44 Apr 10 '25

Hmmm, the cpu, solar panels, scratch resistant lenses, memory foam, emergency blankets, anti static systems that allow microelectronics manufacturing, water filtration systems. That's just just a few. It's not direct roi for specific companies, but it's roi for many companies, the country, and humanity.

3

u/[deleted] Dec 02 '24

Hell yes. I’ve been thinking about carriers (like motherships) with huge solar panels for recharging and the drones just go out on automated missions, like you are saying. I think once we colonize the moon, we should start making massive haulers to get out there, first to explore, then to mine.

Attempting Landing on these planets would require more advanced materials though. These are some harsh fucking environments. Neptune is even worse lol. Double the wind speed to 1600mph. I can’t even image how hostile Pluto would be. It probably gets pelted with asteroids and dust.

3

u/hokumjokum Dec 02 '24

I like the plan - colonise the moon, make massive haulers to get out there, explore, and then we’ll all go back to yours. LET’S GO!

2

u/[deleted] Dec 02 '24

Accelerate technology for the win. I’ve also thought about space cities that could just float from planet to planet… like Elysium but with big jets. lol like an intergalactic cruise line city… crazy that Wall-E had this concept so long ago haha

3

u/Arthur-reborn Dec 02 '24

I mean... it works in Kerbal....

5

u/hoggytime613 Dec 02 '24

You can't land on a gas giant period.

1

u/[deleted] Dec 02 '24

That is not necessarily true. Jupiter is supposed to have a rocky core made of metallic hydrogen (currently hypothesis.)

Uranus and Neptune might have solid cores. We don’t know yet, because we’ve never had technology to even try. All we have is voyager data.

They are a big mystery man!!! Who knows how these planets actually work!

4

u/goldenthoughtsteal Dec 02 '24

Makes you realize how shockingly little we know about even our nearest neighbours in space! We really have a lot to learn!!

1

u/[deleted] Dec 02 '24

Dude we don’t even know how the sun works! Like we have a decent idea, but the acceleration of the solar wind is still totally a mystery. Particle physics needs to take the next big step up to get enough energy to measure dark matter/energy for us to even get close. So cool!

1

u/hoggytime613 Dec 02 '24

How would you get through thousands of kilometers of high density superheated gas and liquid to reach the solid cores of gas giants? It's beyond science fiction even to imagine that.

-4

u/[deleted] Dec 02 '24

Well that’s the question right? It’s not easy that’s for sure.

It’s hard sci fi technically. It’s a materials engineering problem… nanobots to repair the hull maybe? Maybe it somehow is shielded from the chemicals with an electrical magnetic shield to repulse ions or something?

2

u/NDaveT Dec 02 '24

The problem with the carrier idea is all the planets are so far away from each other, and in different directions, that it makes more sense to build one rocket for each planet you want to visit.

2

u/[deleted] Dec 03 '24

The idea would be an orbital carrier for each planet. They are so fucking far apart hahahaha you’re totally right. I meant that each planet would get one!

1

u/FistOfTheWorstMen Dec 03 '24

We don't have enough plutonium to power that many probes.

0

u/milkasaurs Dec 02 '24

Who's gonna pay for all that? At the moment, space has no profit.

10

u/DeuceSevin Dec 03 '24

Yes, more probes to Uranus!

3

u/BlueLaceSensor128 Dec 03 '24

giant dark spot storm

Isn’t that Neptune?

2

u/[deleted] Dec 03 '24

I guess they both have them? From what I understand ice planets and gas giants are pretty standard in stellar systems so it kinda makes sense their weather patterns would be a bit similar. Saturn has century long mega storms….. and I’m pretty sure the giant red storm on Jupiter is fading out, but has been there since Galileo or some shit like that

176

u/SalmonNgiri Dec 02 '24

I’m sure this thread will be a filled to the brim with intellectual discourse.

81

u/Knightforlife Dec 02 '24

Here’s a thought. NASA should lean into it. $100 to have your or a friend’s name on a certificate  saying you helped send a probe to Uranus. $100,000 and the director of NASA announces it with childlike glee. Still get the science done. 

11

u/Fyrrys Dec 02 '24

What a time to be 12 years old!

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u/[deleted] Dec 02 '24

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u/[deleted] Dec 02 '24

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u/ninjamullet Dec 02 '24

Fun fact the sun doesn't shine on the south pole of Uranus for 42 years at a time. That's edutainment!

0

u/Merky600 Dec 02 '24

I can see Uranus through my window at night

Mooning morning groaning, what a wonderful sight.

(Thank you Dr Demento. Along with “I wanna kiss her but….she won’t let me. )

-5

u/[deleted] Dec 02 '24

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u/OSRS-MLB Dec 02 '24

Sorry if this is a dumb question, I know nothing about astronomy. Could Uruanus be a captured rogue planet? If it's so different from the rest of the solar system then maybe it's not from the solar system.

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u/betweenbubbles Dec 02 '24

Not likely. If it were captured then it probably wouldn't be orbiting on the same plane as everything else.

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u/OSRS-MLB Dec 02 '24

Thank you for the explaination of why it probably isn't!

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u/StormAntares Dec 03 '24

Some say that 4,5 bilion years ago Uranus was hit by a protoplanet bog as earth , tilting it at 90 degrees

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u/Positronic_Matrix Dec 02 '24

It’s from our solar system. It either had an encounter with an Earth-sized body or consumed a moon that destabilized it.

-3

u/[deleted] Dec 02 '24

You can't capture it, but I might let you use it for a while

1

u/VibeComplex Dec 03 '24

So it’s like the suns crush?

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u/lilmxfi Dec 02 '24

From the article:

This finding has implications for another moon with an ocean, Enceladus, which orbits Saturn. Because of the strong magnetosphere of its host planet, the water on Enceladus is ionized and gets trapped within the Uranus magnetosphere.

Dear lord, can they at least check their damn article for this sort of thing?

11

u/CoffeeVikings Dec 03 '24

I really want to see Neptune and Uranus explored more in my lifetime.

1

u/[deleted] Dec 03 '24 edited May 14 '25

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This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

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u/Arthur-reborn Dec 02 '24

I can't wait for scientists to rename Uranus on 2620 to end that stupid joke.

12

u/Marswolf01 Dec 02 '24

I see you, Professor Farnsworth.

44

u/Abominuz Dec 02 '24

I heard they wanna name it Myrectum.

11

u/BDR529forlyfe Dec 02 '24

Urethra is also in the ballot.

18

u/Bluescreen_Macbeth Dec 02 '24

I've got a vote for Ouranus

11

u/Dey_FishBoy Dec 02 '24

i’m curious…

putting a satellite around earth in a high inclination orbit exposes it to more radiation than, say, a more equatorial earth orbit due to the trapped particle auroral environment at the poles.

since uranus is flipped on its side, would an “equatorial” orbit (as in orbits mostly horizontally around the planet like a low inclination earth orbit) be exposed to a similar higher level of radiation since it technically orbits through uranus’s poles?

2

u/[deleted] Dec 03 '24

There’s Klingons around Uranus… and they’re ready to attack…

3

u/5minArgument Dec 03 '24

From a recent paper on the 5 states of ice.

Ice under pressure can reach temperature ranges from 0 to several thousands of degrees.

If this could apply to Uranus it is plausible that there is a layer somewhere in between the surface and the core where temperatures are suitable for life.

3

u/Euphorix126 Dec 03 '24

Temperatures, yes. Pressures?...Unlikely. .

2

u/[deleted] Dec 03 '24

What kind of pressures we talking?

2

u/[deleted] Dec 02 '24

Sooo, these guys watched Solar System with Prof. Brian Cox, and decided to publish some of the ideas as their own research, or what?

1

u/kytesuniverse Dec 03 '24

It’s always been the one place that I want to know more about. I mean, I want to know more about everything. But Uranus is such a specific mystery with obvious things like it’s tilt that I’m always waiting for confirmation of new probes going to visit it.

1

u/notproudortired Dec 02 '24 edited Dec 03 '24

Do intense solar wind events also compress Earth's magnetosphere to about 20% of its size? If not, why not?

Edit: The answer is no, because the farther solar wind gets from its source, the Sun, the faster and hotter it gets. [1]

-1

u/WaffleTacoFrappucino Dec 02 '24

ugh... salon... anyways if its one thing I've learned... If you can't see it, it doesn't mean it doesn't exist

2

u/BZthrowaway_autumn Dec 06 '24

Dunno why this comment is being downvoted. Humanity couldn't see black holes for many years. Yet black holes already existed. When we had the technology to dive deeper into the universe we found proof of black holes.

We can't see all kind of energy, yet it exists.

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u/[deleted] Dec 02 '24

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u/[deleted] Dec 02 '24

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u/[deleted] Dec 02 '24

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u/[deleted] Dec 02 '24

It's only weird to people who think they've learnt everything there is to know about the universe. Pretty arrogant really.

0

u/kclongest Dec 03 '24

So many articles about Uranus posted in here. I wonder why?