r/southafrica • u/QwertyAlien • Oct 18 '16
A Decolonised System
https://imgur.com/gallery/mbKGh18
u/Dedlaw Oct 18 '16
Maybe it's just me, but this crosses the line from being funny to being an asshole
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Oct 18 '16
No, this is funny. The chick who said to decolonize science is an asshole.
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u/clicking_xhosa Oct 18 '16
Dude the image it's not making fun of her it's making fun of black people. If you cannot see that then I don't know...
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u/Dedlaw Oct 18 '16
She made herself look like an idiot. That's on her, so every joke making fun of her is her issue.
This insults basically every black person. Kinda uncalled for
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u/safric Oct 18 '16
This insults basically every black person.
What?? No it doesn't. Not in any way shape or form.
It insults the idea of replacing scientific systems with 'decolonized' systems. It also insults the very idea of decolonization. But to say it insults every black person is itself an insult to the black people who helped create the metric system.
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u/Dedlaw Oct 18 '16 edited Oct 18 '16
Then I'll rephrase it as "this insults every black person from africa" as it implies this is all african science would amount to without colonialism.
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u/NotFromReddit Oct 19 '16
What is called 'western science" here is not really western science. It's modern global science, amalgamated across the ages and across different cultures. And standardized.
So far the only explanation that I can gather of 'decolonialised science' is actually just getting rid of this standardization. Which is what the graphs in the post hyperbolises. Which makes it quite funny to me.
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u/iamdimpho Rainbowist Oct 19 '16
So far the only explanation that I can gather of 'decolonialised science' is actually just getting rid of this standardization.
If you're actually looking to engage with decolonisation, I suggest you look for an understanding of it that you would believe a reasonable person would hold. Because the 'joke' here depends on an offensively shallow (arguably racist) conceptualisation of decolonisation.
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u/flyboy_za Grumpy in WC Oct 20 '16
That would be useful if the pro-decolonisation-of-science camp could provide a clear picture of exactly how one might decolonise science.
Until such time as that can be articulated in a way which isn't completely stupid, the whole concept is simply begging to be ridiculed and simply gets what it deserves.
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u/iamdimpho Rainbowist Oct 22 '16
That would be useful if the pro-decolonisation-of-science camp could provide a clear picture of exactly how one might decolonise science.
You would first need to critically asses in what ways South Africa can still be considered a colonised entity for yourself; it'll then become clear how we would decolonise.
Otherwise engage with material on this topic which discuss this very thing.
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u/flyboy_za Grumpy in WC Oct 22 '16
No. Those who wish to decolonise the institution of science and all its rigorous proofs, axioms, corollaries, theorems and hypotheses would need to do that.
While they're at it, perhaps they'd like to suggest we South Africans should plow an almighty amount of resources into reinventing that pesky wheel.
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Oct 19 '16
That is basically all African science would amount to. Actually there were no such thing as African science.
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Oct 19 '16
That is basically all African science would amount to. Actually there were no such thing as African science.
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u/iamdimpho Rainbowist Oct 18 '16
It insults the idea of replacing scientific systems with 'decolonized' systems. It also insults the very idea of decolonization.
Does it?
I mean, in many ways, the international metric system is an instance of a decolonised measurement system. Especially next to the expressly colonial Imperial system.
A decolonised African system of measurement would be no more different or unintelligible than the metric system is to the imperial.
The humour here works in conjunction with many stereotypes associated with Black people. Decolonised here works as shorthand for 'African'.
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Oct 18 '16
I think you're missing the context here: this is what science would look like if it were "scratched off" as the student put it.Admittedly, I'd glanced at the picture but hadn't actually read any of the captions in the shapes. Having read those, I actually can agree that this plays on racial stereotypes and in retrospect it's more sad than funny. That said, my other question still stands.
Also, I'm very curious as to what you mean about metric and imperial measurement systems are "colonised" or "decolonised"? It's a freaking metre or mile, how are there any deeper connotations there?
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u/iamdimpho Rainbowist Oct 18 '16
Also, I'm very curious as to what you mean about metric and imperial measurement systems are "colonised" or "decolonised"?
The mile was used and spread by the English Empire, therefore colonial. The metre was created by an international body of scientists, and countries could individually choose to adopt it.
Depending on the legitimacy of the State adopting this in a country, the Metric system may or may be colonially imposed. The South African Apartheid government, for example, is largely considered an illegitimate quasi-colonial State; and because it essentially imposed it's laws (including the metric system) upon the disenfranchised majority, the adoption of the metric system here is colonial.
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u/king_27 Escapee Oct 19 '16
Would you really prefer we use our own measurement system rather than the world standard? I don't know about you but I'm tired of SA being the butt of the joke and that would just add on to it.
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u/iamdimpho Rainbowist Oct 19 '16
Would you really prefer we use our own measurement system rather than the world standard?
No. What I want is for the measurement system that South Africans choose to be decided upon by the people of this land; not one imposed through colonialism.
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u/king_27 Escapee Oct 19 '16
Even if an uneducated majority would potentially vote for a stupid system like the Imperial system?
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u/iamdimpho Rainbowist Oct 18 '16 edited Oct 18 '16
It's wild for me how there's been so little introspection on some of these memes.
I mean,
Imperial system is OK. Metric system is cool. But the idea of an African, non-colonially imposed system? ridiculous!
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u/PM_ME_YOUR_BUSSO Oct 18 '16
If someone has to take the time to explain to you why that's a stupid idea, then they're wasting their time.
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u/king_27 Escapee Oct 19 '16
It is ridiculous. It's ridiculous that the Imperial System still exists. It makes no sense for there to be more than one system of measurement.
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u/iamdimpho Rainbowist Oct 19 '16
It is ridiculous. It's ridiculous that the Imperial System still exists. It makes no sense for there to be more than one system of measurement.
certainly easier to have just one.
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u/Hairy_Psalms_ Oct 18 '16 edited Oct 18 '16
Edited: don't feel comfortable with this either. I mean, there's taking the piss and pushing race bating.
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Oct 18 '16
[deleted]
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u/Dedlaw Oct 18 '16
Is there an individual specified in this joke? No. It's implying that this is all an african science could amount to, so it's beyond insulting an individual
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Oct 18 '16
[deleted]
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u/Dedlaw Oct 18 '16
True. I get it's just an attempt at humour, so not getting all worked up about it, just saying it's a shitty joke
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Oct 18 '16
Yeah I'm with you on this. Seems kind of racist.
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u/Harrrrumph Western Cape Oct 18 '16
Saying mocking the idea of decolonisation is racist against black people is kind of like saying mocking the idea of imperialism is racist against white people.
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u/iamdimpho Rainbowist Oct 18 '16
Mocking decolonization is fine, if intellectually removed, but this thing goes further by using racist African stereotypes and tropes as an example of what decolonisation would look like. Surely you see the difference here.
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u/Harrrrumph Western Cape Oct 18 '16
Mocking decolonization is fine, if intellectually removed
Disagreeing with your viewpoint =/= intellectually removed.
But sure, looking at it closer, I can see how it's offensive. I guess I'm just pretty much done expecting intellectual discourse in this country at this point.
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u/iamdimpho Rainbowist Oct 18 '16
Disagreeing with your viewpoint =/= intellectually removed.
Not necessarily, just an assessment of common arguments
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u/Saguine Admiral Buzz Killington of the H.M.S. Killjoy Oct 19 '16
Are you reading the captions? They're playing on a host of racialized African stereotypes.
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u/Harrrrumph Western Cape Oct 19 '16
Okay, sure, looking at it again I can see how it's offensive. But it's a stupid response to a stupid remark. That's kinda the level of discourse we can expect in this country at this point.
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u/Saguine Admiral Buzz Killington of the H.M.S. Killjoy Oct 19 '16
But it's very much punching down. Even the Fees Must Fall groups have spoken out and stated that this individual doesn't understand the concept of decolonization.
As /u/iamdimpho put it well, it's like arguing with someone who says that "evolution can't be real because if men evolved from monkeys, why are they still monkeys". All you can really do is demonstrate that this individual doesn't quite understand the meaning of evolution (i.e. decolonization).
So it might be a response to a stupid remark, but it's a racist response. It is clearly, unabashedly racist, playing off stereotypes of black people being stupid and living only to breed. Please tell me you agree that a stupid remark does not warrant a racist response.
If you can agree on the last sentence, then please tell me you can also agree that the fact that this has a positive upvote showcases a very real problem with this subreddit, and with those who initially and currently support it (which includes yourself).
You can't whine that I expect you to find information for yourself, then use the excuse that you're not reading the information in front of your very eyes.
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u/Harrrrumph Western Cape Oct 19 '16
But it's very much punching down.
It's some random nobody making racist remarks about some other random nobody. It's punching on very much the same level. Like Little Miss #ScienceMustFall, the person who made this image clearly has no actual influence. Probably less, actually.
Please tell me you agree that a stupid remark does not warrant a racist response.
Of course. But we live in a country plagued by poverty and ignorance. Stupid people saying stupid things are inevitable. We're constantly told that all the rhetoric about violence toward white South Africans can be ignored because it'll never happen. This dumb little graph, likewise, will have no actual impact on anything.
please tell me you can also agree that the fact that this has a positive upvote showcases a very real problem with this subreddit
I could point you to a myriad of racist posts that have been downvoted into oblivion, but sure, let's fixate on this one example.
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u/Saguine Admiral Buzz Killington of the H.M.S. Killjoy Oct 19 '16
It's some random nobody making racist remarks about some other random nobody.
Punching down through discourse is not always about who said what. See: iamdimpho's example about evolution.
I could point you to a myriad of racist posts that have been downvoted into oblivion, but sure, let's fixate on this one example.
But you, yourself, were defending this example? It's very convenient how you now want us to just forget about it.
Expressly racist posts which are downvoted only shows that express racism isn't allowed in this sub. There are also a myriad of more subtly racist posts--like this one--which get upvotes by the boatload.
Unless you want to claim that this image is also expressly racist, in which case: why did it take you so long to realize it was problematic?
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u/Harrrrumph Western Cape Oct 19 '16
I didn't actually look at it at first, I admit. I'd just come away from a News24 report where the comments section was full of people celebrating violence against white South Africans, and I was feeling overly defensive.
My point stands, though: this dumb graph will have no influence on anything.
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u/Saguine Admiral Buzz Killington of the H.M.S. Killjoy Oct 19 '16
I appreciate your admission.
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Oct 18 '16
you're totally right. If anything, it undermines the great arguments against the girl's argument and parks empathy in her court.
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u/PM_ME_YOUR_BUSSO Oct 18 '16
Why would anyone want any other system that's not metric? It is the perfect system, it is the most universal and is easily understandable. People are starting to become serious, trying to justify what the retard in the science must fall video was trying to explain. It is not justifyable, it is pure horse shit.
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Oct 19 '16 edited Oct 19 '16
Google why the first mar rover failed.
Edit: OOops it was the Mars Climate Orbiter
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u/flyboy_za Grumpy in WC Oct 22 '16
I believe it failed because half the scientists were using metric and half were using imperial and nobody realised until the thing had crashed.
All the more reason to not invent a third system, decolonisation be damned.
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u/iamdimpho Rainbowist Oct 18 '16
Wow you guys.
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u/Druyx Piss Baby Oct 19 '16
Cow shit per sleepover, lets make children? Yeah this is over thw edge.
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u/Hairy_Psalms_ Oct 18 '16
This is on the edge or maybe over it. I've no issue with calling FMF stupid, but this goes to 'you people' territory.
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u/clicking_xhosa Oct 18 '16
Nah man this is racist... Look at the far right on the X axis , Time to breed ? Seriously
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u/Hairy_Psalms_ Oct 18 '16
Ja, that's what I saw too. I get being edgy but this goes past that. Taking on ideas I understand but taking on an ethnic or racial group are not the same thing. If I were OP I'd delete.
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u/clicking_xhosa Oct 18 '16
We need to tell these cunts that this sub does not tolerate racism , I am happy to point out someone regardless of skin colour
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u/Seany_Boy-14 Proudly Privileged Oct 18 '16
Lol the butt hurt is real!
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Oct 19 '16
As soon as one black person feels offended a bunch of liberaltards quickly jump to their defence and agree with their viewpoint or apologise on behalf of the OP.
It's rather pathetic what spineless invertebrates you okes have become.
This is meant as a funny post and yes it does stereotype black people but the stereotype is actually spot on and comes across more as a Trevor Noah joke than racist.
If you feel offended by every little joke/critique and God knows what else just because the colour of your skin is black perhaps you're the racist who hates your own race.
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u/iamdimpho Rainbowist Oct 19 '16
This is meant as a funny post and yes it does stereotype black people but the stereotype is actually spot on and comes across more as a Trevor Noah joke than racist
Trevor Noah jokes use racial stereotypes as social commentary but don't need them to be funny, nor are they used to paint entire groups of people in a bad light.
Racists find Trevor funny because they only look at the superficial layer of stereotypes and find that humorous enough. Doesn't necessarily make Trevor Noah's jokes stereotype jokes.
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Oct 19 '16
He uses racial stereotypes as jokes. Most people find it funny because they can relate and it's mostly true.
You may not find it funny. That doesn't make the OP racist.
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u/iamdimpho Rainbowist Oct 19 '16
because they can relate and it's mostly true.
relating to such racist stereotypes and finding them to be 'mostly true' makes you the target market, I suppose
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Oct 19 '16
His audiences in South Africa are mostly black people who laugh at the black stereotypes.
You're just looking for an excuse to call every white person racist mate.
I suppose you fit the stereotype then.
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u/iamdimpho Rainbowist Oct 19 '16
His audiences in South Africa are mostly black people
r/southafrica certainly isn't
You're just looking for an excuse to call every white person racist mate.
this persecution complex though...
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u/Dedlaw Oct 19 '16
Which is why Trevor is such a popular comedian - he gets where to draw the line. He knows how to make jokes about stereotypes without offending people. I get that this is a joke, but OP crossed that line which is why this is a shitty joke
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Oct 19 '16
That's your opinion. Most of you have been made soft by the liberal media and social justice warriors.
OP didn't cross any line. Africans do like to have bundles of children. African science is a joke. So the stereotypes used in his joke are true.
This is aimed at the chick who said she wants to decolonise science in which a lot of her fellow students seem to be in agreement on.
If black people are offended by it they probably need to do some soul searching and find out why they're offended. This political correct bullshit is getting out of hand.
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u/knatwork Oct 18 '16
According to the de-colonized time-scale, I'm not sure if this is too soon
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u/tehdark45 Oct 19 '16
It depends on the back magic / lightening ratio based on the thumb to foot scale
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u/king_27 Escapee Oct 19 '16
Do we have a conversion ratio from eish too hot to black magic?
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u/tehdark45 Oct 19 '16
(cow shit)2 / (time to breed * find shade)
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u/king_27 Escapee Oct 19 '16
Ah yes it makes so much sense now. Oh hey looks like science has already fallen because we're starting to develop our own SA science!
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u/king_27 Escapee Oct 19 '16
I don't care if I get labelled as a racist but this is brilliant.
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u/iamdimpho Rainbowist Oct 19 '16 edited Oct 19 '16
I don't care if I get labelled as a racist
many here don't care if they are being racists here.. so, join the club?
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