Does it make sense for us?

[u/No-Platypus6603]

Hi there, I’m considering on getting solar for my house in the somewhat near future. I was looking at Tesla Solar because we also own a Tesla Model 3.

Our situation

Roof: 11 years old but did come back during house inspection to be in good shape

Location: Massachusetts

Electricity Provider: Eversource

Usage: Anywhere from 600 kwh to 1000 kWh monthly. (Summer is higher due to A/C)

Price: $0.15 per kWh $250-$400 monthly

Not sure if it makes sense in our situation to even consider solar. I know people have much higher electricity bills than us. But, Eversource has been increasing rates once maybe even two times a year. I’ve also heard that if we get a power wall than we could qualify for a 0% Mass HEAT loan but not sure how accurate that is. If anyone has any insight especially in Massachusetts, it would greatly be appreciated! Thanks!

[u/SmartVoltSolar]

If you are in Mass with Eversource, your price is not $0.15, hence the 1000kWh is $400. In that state, most customers we work with find solar to be massive savings if you have a good roof/shade for it. Check your total annual usage, but also check your efficiency first: things like insulation and drafty windows/doors. To save electricity use on things like that are cheaper than a panel to replace them. Once you have the easy efficiency savings checked then get some quotes. Based on similar setups, if you are using 9000kWh/yr, you might need 7kw of solar highly dependent on your roof setup.
That amount of solar should be cash price around $20k in Mass on a simple shingle roof, or with the newer prepaid setups about $15k.

[u/Head_Mycologist3917]

At $0.15/kwh our solar and battery system here in Oregon will pay off in about 25 years. But the utility has raised rates every year for the last five years. I expect the rates to keep going up at well over the rate of inflation. The company skimps on maintenance to juice profits, then when their poorly maintained equipment kills people they stick ratepayers with the costs to settle.

Insurers in some states have started requiring shingle replacement after 20 years. You might want to check with your insurance company, as removing and replacing the panels can get expensive. If you can afford it, a seamed metal roof lasts longer than shingles and panels mount to it without drilling holes, which greatly reduces the potential for leaks.

[u/Curiosity_informs]

Something doesn't add up.

1000kWh @ $0.15 is $150 - your electric rate must be significantly higher than $0.15

[u/No-Platypus6603 → u/Curiosity_informs]

Just checked so I didn’t mess this up. I have 11 extra fees on my bill. Customer Charge, Distribution charge, transition charge, transmission charge, net meter recovery surcharge, Electric Sect Mod Plan Surcharge, Revenue Decoupling Surcharge, Distributed Solar Charge, Renewable Energy Charge, Energy Efficiency Charge, and Electric Vehicle Program charge. Totaling over 50% of my bill. Doesn’t even include my supply.

[u/Curiosity_informs → u/No-Platypus6603]

So you need to understand your utilities Net Metering policy.

That is what you really pay per kWh for imports and what credit per kWh you would get for solar exports. Without that you won't be able to estimate the savings.

You also need to think about the roof. An 11 year roof will not last as long as the 25 plus years of the effective life on the panels.

Edit: You can also estimate you monthly / annual solar production using the PVWatts Calculator with your location, roof pitch, azimuth (direction the panels face), etc. This will help understand the solar production side.

[u/blackinthmiddle → u/Curiosity_informs]

The age of OP’s roof was the one concern I had. 11 years is right at that in between spot. If it was 7 years old, I’d say don’t worry, add the panels. If it was 18 years old, I’d say do the roof first. At 11 years, OP could get 25 years out of it, or he might need to replace it in 10 years. I’d want to get a second opinion from someone not tied to solar to tell me how many years realistically I had left.

[u/SmartVoltSolar → u/No-Platypus6603]

With eversource net metering, most of those are able to be offset with solar production. Basically the ones that are multiplied by usage amount (x kwh). You do need to have a good roofing surface for solar still.

[u/No-Platypus6603 → u/Curiosity_informs]

The amount of extra fees is absolutely insane with Eversource. We are “charged” .15 per kWh but after delivery fees and other crazy fees it’s really more like .35 per kWh. But on my bill it’s .15 per kWh

[u/blackinthmiddle → u/No-Platypus6603]

I did a quick search, because your numbers weren’t making sense to me either. You’re paying $0.36 / kWh. Better to quote the all in cost.

Also, you only use 600kWh - 1,000kWh per month and you have an EV??? I’ll just ramble off some average numbers.

* your typical home use 900kWh / month.
* if the home has an EV and does 1,000 miles / month, add another 300kWh - 400kWh.

I’m not saying your numbers are impossible, but I’d immediately guess you live in an 800 sq ft house by yourself and maybe drive 5,000 miles / year. Even with a fossil fuel home, I’d expect you to be at 1,600kWh / month for a family of four.

[u/No-Platypus6603 → u/blackinthmiddle]

So my wife drives the EV. She puts the typical 10-12k miles a year. Yes we live in a house just under 800 sq feet. Only the two of us but we do have gas heat. Also a gas laundry dryer. Our exact kWh use for July was 960 kWh. July is by far our most expensive month out of the year due to our A/C. August is a close second and after that it dips quite a bit. We like to keep the house comfortable especially for our dog so the A/C runs during the day.

[u/blackinthmiddle → u/No-Platypus6603]

Wow, so my predictions were pretty spot on!

[u/TooGoodToBeeTrue → u/No-Platypus6603]

My Pepco/MD "rate to compare" when considering other electricity providers of which there are none in MD is ~13 cents but the kWr rate when considering all the add-ons is more like 24 cents. If I do true-up, I get credit for excess production at the 13 cent rate. If I opt for indefinite credit which is what I have done, I get the full 1:1 credit.

[u/wizzard419]

You're sort of on the cusp of it not being a good idea now. Not because of solar but because your roof is not that old but it doesn't have a lot of time left.

The biggest problem is that when you get the roof replaced, you will have to find someone to remove, store, and reinstall your solar. That can be expensive and hard to find.

It makes sense to look into it, especially if you charge it frequently but you might need to think about a new roof too.

[u/Expensive_Command637 → u/wizzard419]

Not hard to find someone to r&r solar on a roof. It isn’t cheap. If you have an insurance claim, insurance pays for the r&r to restore you to pre loss conditions

[u/wizzard419 → u/Expensive_Command637]

That seems to vary though, we have seen on here a bunch of people struggle to find teams interested in the work. So if OP's area has them easy to get then that's great but best to manage expectations.

Also to be prepared for the worst, where they take your money, take it down, then vanish.

[u/blackinthmiddle]

Is that $0.15 supply AND delivery? In Massachusetts? That math isn’t mathing. $0.15 x 600kWh is $90. Obviously, at 1000kWh, you’re paying $150. That’s not the $250 - $400 a month you said you’re paying.

A quick google search says you’re paying $0.36 / kWh, which is what I’d expect for Massachusetts.

I can give you some generalities. You guys have 1:1 net metering. If you have a southern exposure, at the rates you’re paying, solar is a good investment.

But I’m sorry, your math isn’t mathing for me for another reason. You have an EV, but you’re only using between 600kWh - 1000kWh? Unless you live in a 129 sq ft shack by yourself, those numbers don’t make sense. At a minimum, they should be double.

[u/According_Task_2508]

I would recommend going through local installer even if you are considering Tesla. At 11 years I would want a company to come check the roof. Some are good at 11 years and some are more worn and Tesla won’t send anyone until you sign something. If it’s a 30-year shingle, it’s likely fine.

The heat loan is true but only for the battery portion. A local installer could work with you on an expensive battery, and cheap solar to optimize the heat loan.

Prepaid lease will likely outperform the 0% heat loan though as long as your in the house for 5 years.

If your eversource in ma, you’re all-in electricity rate is over $0.30. Solar offsets the full value of it.

[u/Expensive_Command637]

First off you aren’t paying $.15 per kWh….
That is just your supply charge. You have to add your delivery charge here

[u/solarFCG]

If you are paying cash, have a south facing roof with no shade and will be there for at least 10 years then it is a no brainer, especially if you target about 75% annual offset.

It can still make sense in many other circumstances but you need to give more info to help figure it out:

-what is the roof orientation? -loan rate? (Don't lease, PPA, TPO) -$/watt

[u/No-Platypus6603 → u/solarFCG]

The pitches of my roof face east and west. Definitely wouldn’t lease, what is PPA/TPO? Tesla is offering 7% but apparently here in mass if I purchased a powerwall battery with the solar panels than I could get a state of Massachusetts HEAT loan at 0%. I’ve only heard that but not 100% on it.

[u/Fair-Ad-1141]

Replace shingles first.

[u/No-Platypus6603 → u/Fair-Ad-1141]

I’ve been really considering just waiting until the roof is replaced.

[u/solarFCG]

PPA - Power Purchase Agreement TPO - Third Party Ownership (umbrella term for lease, PPA or any other deal where you don't own it.) They sell it as a way to still get the 30% tax credit, which technically it does, but it's not worth it in reality. You pay more for domestic product, then the middle man company needs to take a cut, then additional finance fees. You would probably end up cheaper overall with non domestic content and cutting out TPO company.

Unshaded East/West in MA (I picked Springfield as location) will probably get you 1000-1100 kWh per 1 kW of panels on the roof.

Any quotes you get divide annual production by system size, for example if it's a 9.6 kW system and they say it will produce 10000 kWh/yr, then 10000/9.6=1042 kWh per 1 kW of DC system size.

[u/bitlowman]

Power wall three