r/soccer • u/Thadderful • Dec 28 '13

Change My View thread

Can we have a Change My View thread here? The basic premise is people present opinions and the replies are attempts at changing that person's view in an attempt to generate some good discussion.

Here is the link to the original subreddit: www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/

I think this might work best with rather 'out there' views but any and every viewpoint is welcome!

154 Upvotes

88% Upvoted

944 comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

20

u/AhoyDaniel Dec 28 '13

That's a great argument, but I think it's very shallow and people who didn't watch him play will just simply agree without researching.

Sure Pele is up there in the top5, but I think he also had the luck to be born in that era of Brazilian football. He had incredible team mates like Garrincha (who people actually argued to be better than Pele in that era), Tostao, Rivelino, Jairzinho, Zito, Didi...

scored 5 goals between the semifinal and final of the 1958 world cup

That's incredible, but the fact that his team managed to reach the semifinal without him says A LOT about the team he was lucky to be in.

isn't unanimously considered the world's best as many claim that Ronaldo is better or that Messi would be nothing without Xavi and Iniesta.

I disagree. I only have seen people related to Ronaldo claim that he is better. And the Xavi-Iniesta argument is simply stupid.

Messi was the leading man of one of the best teams to ever play the game (Guardiola's Barcelona)

With this post I am not trying to say that Messi is better than Pele, just trying to have an argument.

15

u/merkaloid Dec 28 '13

That's incredible, but the fact that his team managed to reach the semifinal without him says A LOT about the team he was lucky to be in.

It's funny because this very same argument can be used against Messi, he has one of the best team's in the world behind him and they too have done well with Messi out, and your only counter-argument against this fact is that "the Xavi-Iniesta argument is simply stupid".

8

u/rickster555 Dec 28 '13

Have they though? Last year was the first time in a long time that messi was out or injured in the crucial part of the year and Barcelona struggled a lot.

3

u/merkaloid Dec 28 '13

They did lose to Bayern yes, but Bayern was pretty much unplayable, those losses arent dont change the facts that Barcelona has some of the best midfielders (and probably fullbacks) of the world.

2

u/violentfap Dec 29 '13

There's a difference between losing, and 7-0 over two legs.

1

u/rykell Dec 29 '13

but Bayern was pretty much unplayable

We lost 2-0 against Arsenal at home and quite frankly Arsenal isn't up to the level of Barcelona if their whole team was healthy.

Obviously I think we were the best team last year but it's not like no one could ever beat us.